I love Jackie's vibrato. She varies it like a skilled artist varies their brush strokes.
Nice simile. I do SO agree with you about Jackie's natural skill in expression. And in your remarks about differing taste in music being something about how different people's brains are wired differently. It's so puzzling, when someone's reaction to music is at variance from one's own. But that's part of what makes music, in general, so fascinating.
Our listening brains don't coincide perfectly, though. I was a little taken aback by your negative reaction to the Songs from the Silver Screen album as a whole. Especially since you so like Danny Boy, which although it dates from the Dream With Me period, exhibits very much the extensive use of the covered tone that kind of reached its peak when she was recording SFTSS. Maybe the '40's Hollywood themed cover put you off, or you just didn't like the song selection? Thank you for your detailed posts on Danny Boy; nice to get a new perspective on a song that never was especially striking to me. It would be interesting if you would go into similar detail about what you DON'T like about some SFTSS songs.
I was searching for information concerning Jackie on the 'net today and came across an article written by a trained classical singer who was experiencing some difficulty getting some recognition of her talent. She had decided to critically study Jackie's talent and quickly came to the conclusion that besides Jackie having a superb voice, she in no way mimics other artists when covering a song. Because Jackie truly understands her vocals and what she is capable of doing, she puts her uniqueness into every cover that she does .... in other words she is true to herself. This person also realized that being true to her self and bringing her own style to her music, she could easily bring her emotions into her renditions without effort and be completely natural.
She closed her article by expressing her thanks to Jackie for revealing the changes she needed to make to become more successful. Apparently after making changes the writer was able to get a position in some prestigious choir.
I apologise for not making myself clear when talking about the mimic accusation. I believe what has happened is a vocal minority has hijacked the word "mimic" and turned it into a derogatory term. But one of the beauties of the internet is that anyone can look up the etymology of the word. Did you know that the Greek word from which mimic comes from is used at least 6 times in the Bible and always in a positive way?
Mimicry is a term also used in biology and psychology. It simply means to imitate. We all imitate, even at the subconscious level. We learned to speak and with our various accents through imitation. We pick up mannerisms through imitation. Hence, the expression, "Like father, like son."
Have you heard of Rich Little, the man of a thousand voices? Well, Jackie is the girl with a thousand voices. In 2hearts, I hear at least 6 different voices in just the first 7 tracks. Same thing with Awakening. Probably at least 6 different voice types among all the tracks.
I've read that she doesn't really read music. How did she learn Moon Over RC and to sing it in a voice so completely different than anything else I've ever heard her sing? She had to imitate somebody to even say the Japanese words.
Again, to try to make myself clearer, what I am not saying is that Jackie merely imitates other singers which is what she is being accused of.
Let me try this analogy to see if it helps. Jackie with her ears, voice, and brain is like a girl going out into a meadow to pick wild flowers to make a lovely bouquet. When home, she gets out her brushes and oils and begins to paint. But wait...she is not painting a picture of the bouquet...she is painting a little girl in a meadow picking wild flowers to recreate the experience she felt. And we are invited to share that experience by contemplating her painting.
Now the critic comes along and accuses her of copying famous painter x. The followers of said critic all nod their heads in agreement like nice little mimics (haha!).
But some lovers of pure art from a pure heart chime in.
(To be continued, this is already getting too long, lol)
I love Jackie's vibrato. She varies it like a skilled artist varies their brush strokes.
Nice simile. I do SO agree with you about Jackie's natural skill in expression. And in your remarks about differing taste in music being something about how different people's brains are wired differently. It's so puzzling, when someone's reaction to music is at variance from one's own. But that's part of what makes music, in general, so fascinating.
Our listening brains don't coincide perfectly, though. I was a little taken aback by your negative reaction to the Songs from the Silver Screen album as a whole. Especially since you so like Danny Boy, which although it dates from the Dream With Me period, exhibits very much the extensive use of the covered tone that kind of reached its peak when she was recording SFTSS. Maybe the '40's Hollywood themed cover put you off, or you just didn't like the song selection? Thank you for your detailed posts on Danny Boy; nice to get a new perspective on a song that never was especially striking to me. It would be interesting if you would go into similar detail about what you DON'T like about some SFTSS songs.
Thank you for your kind words. I wish I were a skilled and especially fast writer. That last post I wrote took me way too long so I had to cut it off and continue it later. Doesn't help that I'm one-finger typing on a tablet in my cab, lol.
It's funny how some critics/trolls complain about how on most of her long notes she holds off the vibrato till the end unlike their Opera darlings who maintain a steady beat throughout the song. And then they have the audacity to say she just mimics. Lol!
Now I am no voice expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought one of the functions of a vibrato was to add interest/color to the voice. To me, a constant or steady vibrato is self defeating, i.e., boring.
As far as SFTSS goes, I don't know if that should be done in a different thread. It's really hard for me to describe what I'm hearing because I haven't done a thorough analysis of it, lol. I tend to be over analytical, which bugs the crap out of some people that have had to work with me, lol!
For now, just let me say that I sense that she is in a cocoon and almost suffocating while shes trying to sing. Like being in a dream and you're trying to say something but nothing comes out. The last time I tried to listen to SFTSS I quickly jumped over to "Your Love" from "Awakening" and it was shocking. It was like she had broken through that stifling barrier and could breathe and sing clearly in full body. I think it brought me to tears as well.
Believe me, I really want to like SFTSS because that would mean more Jackie songs to indulge in. She has the most beautiful voice that has ever graced my ears but I not going to lie and say she sounds wonderful on SFTSS. I know what she sounds like on Awakening and SFTSS, to my ears, doesn't even come close.
I appreciate your observations and insight to Jackie's vocal versatility. Jackie has an astonishing innate skill set that contributes to her being, as you say, "a girl of a thousand voices". Those who have criticized Jackie, professing to be experts/critics and professional would of course not acknowledge the extent of her natural abilities and skill in using them. It's easier and more conducive to their intention to minimize her prodigious talent and dismiss it as simple "mimicry". I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly listen with the same scrutiny they use to denounce her, discovering that they have been mesmerized and fallen victim to "the Jackie Effect", but dare not concede to their vulnerability. I could say a lot more too, because of the extent of Jackie's talent, but I'd be repeating myself. I've already been accused of being "a little wordy" when it comes to expressing my admiration.
Nice simile. I do SO agree with you about Jackie's natural skill in expression. And in your remarks about differing taste in music being something about how different people's brains are wired differently. It's so puzzling, when someone's reaction to music is at variance from one's own. But that's part of what makes music, in general, so fascinating.
Our listening brains don't coincide perfectly, though. I was a little taken aback by your negative reaction to the Songs from the Silver Screen album as a whole. Especially since you so like Danny Boy, which although it dates from the Dream With Me period, exhibits very much the extensive use of the covered tone that kind of reached its peak when she was recording SFTSS. Maybe the '40's Hollywood themed cover put you off, or you just didn't like the song selection? Thank you for your detailed posts on Danny Boy; nice to get a new perspective on a song that never was especially striking to me. It would be interesting if you would go into similar detail about what you DON'T like about some SFTSS songs.
Thank you for your kind words. I wish I were a skilled and especially fast writer. That last post I wrote took me way too long so I had to cut it off and continue it later. Doesn't help that I'm one-finger typing on a tablet in my cab, lol.
It's funny how some critics/trolls complain about how on most of her long notes she holds off the vibrato till the end unlike their Opera darlings who maintain a steady beat throughout the song. And then they have the audacity to say she just mimics. Lol!
Now I am no voice expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought one of the functions of a vibrato was to add interest/color to the voice. To me, a constant or steady vibrato is self defeating, i.e., boring.
As far as SFTSS goes, I don't know if that should be done in a different thread. It's really hard for me to describe what I'm hearing because I haven't done a thorough analysis of it, lol. I tend to be over analytical, which bugs the crap out of some people that have had to work with me, lol!
For now, just let me say that I sense that she is in a cocoon and almost suffocating while shes trying to sing. Like being in a dream and you're trying to say something but nothing comes out. The last time I tried to listen to SFTSS I quickly jumped over to "Your Love" from "Awakening" and it was shocking. It was like she had broken through that stifling barrier and could breathe and sing clearly in full body. I think it brought me to tears as well.
Believe me, I really want to like SFTSS because that would mean more Jackie songs to indulge in. She has the most beautiful voice that has ever graced my ears but I not going to lie and say she sounds wonderful on SFTSS. I know what she sounds like on Awakening and SFTSS, to my ears, doesn't even come close.
Hope that helps.
On her vibrato: Often she takes a note into vibrato from an initial "white" voicing, as you say, but she also sometimes does the whole note in vibrato... or in white. She also uses a fast & shallow, or slow and wide vibrato throughout a song, as seems appropriate for the song. In other words, she uses vibrato just as she sees fit- and for me at least, it's marvelous. Then you have self-styled critics saying her vibrato "lacks control". Incomprehensible. It's also been remarked that in duets, she matches her vibrato to her partner's.
Your SFTSS reaction: Many have said that it seems, on her tour performances, she has significantly developed her interpretations of songs she recorded for CD some time before. You said you've watched a lot of YouTube videos- I wondered whether you too have thought that, or do you avoid vids of SFTSS songs? I could URL you some of my favorite live videos.
*Off Topic* - your mention of piano tuning made me think of this
but since you have investigated the topic, maybe it's old news for you.
Also, an integral part of Jackie's ability to adapt her instrument to the character, mood, etc of a song is her selective us of falsetto. Generally singers simply rely upon falsetto to reach notes beyond their chest voice range, which is usually quite noticeable. She is skillful at using falsetto to change the dynamic and color of a note or phrase at will well within her chest voice range. She may, as well, alter falsetto with chest voice to vary the intensity of a phrase that is repeated throughout a song. One example is the phrase "no matter how long it'll hurt like this" in Apocalypse where she uses it purposely in the first repetitions and then her chest voice for the last two to make it more dynamic. An example of her using falsetto to finish a song with a light lyrical character as apposed to strong climactic finish is the last stanza of Caruso, where she drifts into softness. Jackie's transitions into falsetto are seamless and so smooth that it may be unnoticed by the casual listener, which is a skill quite unique to Jackie. Her selective use of it is an innate sense she has had since she was ten years old, and she has developed it with increasing finesse.
Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017 16:30:26 GMT -5 by Deleted
Also, an integral part of Jackie's ability to adapt her instrument to the character, mood, etc of a song is her selective us of falsetto. Generally singers simply reply upon falsetto to reach notes beyond their chest voice range, which is usually quite noticable. She is skillful at using falsetto to change the dynamic and color of a note or phrase at will well within her chest voice range. She may, as well, alter falsetto with chest voice to vary the intensity of a phrase that is repeated throughout a song. One example is the phrase "no matter how long it'll hurt like this" in Apocalypse where she uses it purposely in the first repetitions and then her chest voice for the last two to make it more dynamic. An example of her using falsetto to finish a song with a light lyrical character as apposed to strong climactic finish is the last stanza of Caruso, where she drifts into softness. Jackie's transitions into falsetto are seamless and so smooth that it may be unnoticed by the casual listener, which is a skill quite unique to Jackie. Her selective use of it is an innate sense she has had since she was ten years old, and she has developed it with increasing finesse.
I think you should work on your falsetto, also, your chest voice is a little breathy, too.
Thank you for your kind words. I wish I were a skilled and especially fast writer. That last post I wrote took me way too long so I had to cut it off and continue it later. Doesn't help that I'm one-finger typing on a tablet in my cab, lol.
It's funny how some critics/trolls complain about how on most of her long notes she holds off the vibrato till the end unlike their Opera darlings who maintain a steady beat throughout the song. And then they have the audacity to say she just mimics. Lol!
Now I am no voice expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought one of the functions of a vibrato was to add interest/color to the voice. To me, a constant or steady vibrato is self defeating, i.e., boring.
As far as SFTSS goes, I don't know if that should be done in a different thread. It's really hard for me to describe what I'm hearing because I haven't done a thorough analysis of it, lol. I tend to be over analytical, which bugs the crap out of some people that have had to work with me, lol!
For now, just let me say that I sense that she is in a cocoon and almost suffocating while shes trying to sing. Like being in a dream and you're trying to say something but nothing comes out. The last time I tried to listen to SFTSS I quickly jumped over to "Your Love" from "Awakening" and it was shocking. It was like she had broken through that stifling barrier and could breathe and sing clearly in full body. I think it brought me to tears as well.
Believe me, I really want to like SFTSS because that would mean more Jackie songs to indulge in. She has the most beautiful voice that has ever graced my ears but I not going to lie and say she sounds wonderful on SFTSS. I know what she sounds like on Awakening and SFTSS, to my ears, doesn't even come close.
Hope that helps.
On her vibrato: Often she takes a note into vibrato from an initial "white" voicing, as you say, but she also sometimes does the whole note in vibrato... or in white. She also uses a fast & shallow, or slow and wide vibrato throughout a song, as seems appropriate for the song. In other words, she uses vibrato just as she sees fit- and for me at least, it's marvelous. Then you have self-styled critics saying her vibrato "lacks control". Incomprehensible. It's also been remarked that in duets, she matches her vibrato to her partner's.
Your SFTSS reaction: Many have said that it seems, on her tour performances, she has significantly developed her interpretations of songs she recorded for CD some time before. You said you've watched a lot of YouTube videos- I wondered whether you too have thought that, or do you avoid vids of SFTSS songs? I could URL you some of my favorite live videos.
*Off Topic* - your mention of piano tuning made me think of this
but since you have investigated the topic, maybe it's old news for you.
Yes! Yes!! And YES!!! Finally, I have found Nirvana. Haha! Other people who "get it".
I'm on a mandatory 30 min break so don't have much time till I shut down tonight. I'm sure you have noticed this, but for those who may have not, I love the way she sings "merry and BRIIIIIIGHT" on White Christmas. Nice bright tone and no vibrato at first to soften the bright tone and then a slow undulation at the end. Is even more pronounced on the 2nd and last bright. Then when she sings white at the very end she has a lovely soft steady vibrato throughout and finishes with a gorgeous "t", lol!
PS I agree, her use of vibrato is marvelous!
Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017 16:19:51 GMT -5 by Deleted
I decided not to continue my previous analogy which already has enough info for most to figure out where I was going with it. Instead a better one bubbled up from my memory banks even though I don't know what prompted it.
It has to do with historical facts concerning the Wright Brothers. They did not invent many of the components of their airplane like the airfoil and propeller. Nor did they invent the wind tunnel which they used to assist in their work. Their invention was a synthesis of ideas from many sources. So they did imitate others, especially Otto Lilienthal. And they learned from studying birds. So in a sense they tried to emulate birds in controlling their plane.
To me, Jackie is like the Wright Brothers. She studies and yes, she emulates. But then she synthesizes her own unique creation and we get to fly with her. Haha, I couldn't resist.
Indulge me in sharing a funny (to me, at least) anecdote which might help a little in understanding the Jackie Effect.
A couple weeks ago I was on home time and the first night back I was perusing videos on music with my wife. Couldn't do anything with Jackie in it, though. (Sigh..)
I clicked on "Top 10 most beautiful songs of all time". Number 10, the first played, was Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings". A few seconds in, my wife exclaims, "Oh my gosh! This piece always makes me cry."
So as not to leave my wife unfulfilled (we older men have learned that women actually enjoy a good cry) I promptly pulled up the complete piece on YouTube. As the tears started rolling down her cheeks a couple started welling up in mine.
Then I came to my senses. Wait a minute. I know why she's crying. In the summer of 2003 while I was still teaching and had July off, we had gone out to Colorado for my HS reunion and then spent most of July hiking in the Rockies. Trip of a lifetime. However, at one location I had convinced my wife to go on a brief excursion off trail with me up the mountain. Long story short, that brief excursion morphed into a lengthy and frightening ordeal for her. At least I took a bunch of beautiful pictures while we were trying to make our way back to campsite, lol.
Once we got back to Knoxville, I created several slide shows with music to put on DVD to show others and relive our trip to Colorado. The last group of pictures included the ones from that "are we lost?" hike.
I chose Barber's Adagio for Strings for the background music because I thought it captured the mood. Now you know the rest of the story.
Funny thing was, she didn't even make the connection on why the music made her cry because it had been years since she had seen the slide show I had made. When I did, my tears turned to laughter and I told her, "You're not crying just because the music is so moving, but because your brain is subconsciously connecting that hike with the music." So then we both had a good laugh.
I love a good story, especially if it is not fiction. My daughter was not a fan of Jackie's until i took her to one of Jackie's concerts 3 years ago. I had tickets for myself and my girlfriend but the girlfriend decided she would rather go on a boat trip to the islands with her son instead of going to see Jackie. This left me with an extra ticket. I had just reconnected with my daughter after not seeing her for 36 years so i thought i would offer the ticket to my daughter. She said ok so we were off to see Jackie in Las Vegas. My daughter has asthma and as soon as Jackie started to sing she choked up, tears and all and had an asthma attack. She managed to get control and was ok for the rest of the concert but she did soak a hankey. Well, me too to be honest but a new Jackie fan was born. She has accompanied me to 6 more concerts since that day and we are planning many more. One more thing. My daughter moved in with me and is known here as chris. The girlfriend? Her sons boat went down at sea and she had to be rescued by the coast guard and she has sense moved to Hawaii with her son.
Indulge me in sharing a funny (to me, at least) anecdote which might help a little in understanding the Jackie Effect.
A couple weeks ago I was on home time and the first night back I was perusing videos on music with my wife. Couldn't do anything with Jackie in it, though. (Sigh..)
I clicked on "Top 10 most beautiful songs of all time". Number 10, the first played, was Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings". A few seconds in, my wife exclaims, "Oh my gosh! This piece always makes me cry."
For several years my church used to put on the Passion Play for Easter. The music director used the Adagio piece, or at least the last 4-5 minutes, played by the orchestra at the end of the crucifixion as Christ was being lowered from the cross and laid in his mother Mary's lap. This was a large church and weeks were spent practicing for this production. Full orchestra, full choir, and a cast of probably 200+ members. Talk about a choker-upper!
I love a good story, especially if it is not fiction. My daughter was not a fan of Jackie's until i took her to one of Jackie's concerts 3 years ago. I had tickets for myself and my girlfriend but the girlfriend decided she would rather go on a boat trip to the islands with her son instead of going to see Jackie. This left me with an extra ticket. I had just reconnected with my daughter after not seeing her for 36 years so i thought i would offer the ticket to my daughter. She said ok so we were off to see Jackie in Las Vegas. My daughter has asthma and as soon as Jackie started to sing she choked up, tears and all and had an asthma attack. She managed to get control and was ok for the rest of the concert but she did soak a hankey. Well, me too to be honest but a new Jackie fan was born. She has accompanied me to 6 more concerts since that day and we are planning many more. One more thing. My daughter moved in with me and is known here as chris. The girlfriend? Her sons boat went down at sea and she had to be rescued by the coast guard and she has sense moved to Hawaii with her son.
Stranded at sea? Was this she...
...probably not since there was no mention of a male crew member. But there was no denial of the existence of cannibals despite the return of two healthy looking crew members and two healthy looking canine creatures after 5 months.
Last Edit: Nov 16, 2017 11:50:35 GMT -5 by believer
I love a good story, especially if it is not fiction. My daughter was not a fan of Jackie's until i took her to one of Jackie's concerts 3 years ago. I had tickets for myself and my girlfriend but the girlfriend decided she would rather go on a boat trip to the islands with her son instead of going to see Jackie. This left me with an extra ticket. I had just reconnected with my daughter after not seeing her for 36 years so i thought i would offer the ticket to my daughter. She said ok so we were off to see Jackie in Las Vegas. My daughter has asthma and as soon as Jackie started to sing she choked up, tears and all and had an asthma attack. She managed to get control and was ok for the rest of the concert but she did soak a hankey. Well, me too to be honest but a new Jackie fan was born. She has accompanied me to 6 more concerts since that day and we are planning many more. One more thing. My daughter moved in with me and is known here as chris. The girlfriend? Her sons boat went down at sea and she had to be rescued by the coast guard and she has sense moved to Hawaii with her son.
Stranded at sea? Was this she...
...probably not since there was no mention of a male crew member. But there was no denial of the existence of cannibals despite the return of two healthy looking crew members and two healthy looking canine creatures after 5 months.
ghost: How about this for the header picture? ibb.co/34dJrVN
Mar 22, 2024 20:06:57 GMT -5
msims: www.youtube.com/watch?v=irK-SGUZeSM Rick would like this. A World Silver Medal Winner Skating to Jackie's Nella Fantasia last week
Mar 24, 2024 18:43:32 GMT -5
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rickolsen: New Header. Do you like it?
Mar 24, 2024 19:22:41 GMT -5
lawrence: rickallanolsen has taken to disparaging Jackie on her YouTube videos......"Smoking Gun" and her recent upload of Set Me Free. What's up with that, Rick?
Mar 25, 2024 15:56:41 GMT -5
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rickolsen: If my comments were disparaging I apologize. To me her classical crossover voice was much better than her pop voice and so were the songs. Beginning with her album The Debut when she switched to pop I haven't purchased anything she's put out.
Mar 26, 2024 6:25:53 GMT -5
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hiturbine: I'm really tempted to say something about this ongoing nonsense, but I'll hold my peace - for now
Apr 2, 2024 20:23:44 GMT -5
Willyiam: Admin: Why was Other Artists deleted without first asking for the member's approval?? And, why now? Other Artists has been a part of this forum for years!! I strongly disapprove!
Apr 6, 2024 10:26:29 GMT -5
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rickolsen: I have rethunk my decision. Other Artists is back.
Apr 10, 2024 13:18:58 GMT -5
lawrence: Rick's comment on Jackie's Smoking Gun video...."Jackie's competition has never been promoted on my forum". What is the objective of re-establishing Other Artists on the board?
Apr 10, 2024 18:10:12 GMT -5
hiturbine: OK, I am going to chime in here: I do not understand the OTT reaction to having a folder for "Other Artists." This forum has FOURTEEN folders dedicated to Jackie - and ONE for "Other Artists." So, how about calming down, and quit with the drama?
Apr 10, 2024 19:08:05 GMT -5
rlhamil: ...that's as of October 1, 2023, the most recent snapshot on the Wayback Machine (archive.org)
Apr 10, 2024 23:29:48 GMT -5
rickolsen: Stormy caught a mouse in the dining room. He was batting it around and it got away and ran into the kitchen and disappeared. He's killed 3 mice in the last month. This makes 4, but it got away. I didn't know there are so many mice.
Apr 12, 2024 23:45:29 GMT -5
rickolsen: The mouse is dead. I found it on the kitchen floor. He never eats them. I found the last one on my desk.
Apr 13, 2024 0:15:01 GMT -5
ghost: Jackie's new EP "Solla" will be released on May 3rd. Pre-Order here: www.amazon.com/dp/B0D1548R6P
Apr 15, 2024 17:22:48 GMT -5