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Post by Willyiam on Jun 6, 2021 8:34:04 GMT -5
Here's a link to an interesting ranking of the "Greatest Women In Music, 1980s to today." published in March 2020. Guess what, Jackie is ranked #21 among the 150 listed and above her favorite singer, Lady Gaga. One's musical taste goes to the very definition of what is "subjective". My attention span in trying to listen to the up and coming Angelina Jordan, who to me is just another in a long and forgettable line of Mariah Carrey wannabes, lasts less than 30 seconds. Jackie? I've never tired of listening to any song she's ever sung from the first time I heard her, because most all are of a quality that's makes them timelessly listenable by a musical artist whose renditions of them is also of that same extraordinarily high quality. Call me an OTT Jackie fan. But the list I've just linked you to ... seems to agree with my point of view and what and who pleases both my ears and soul to listen to. Being ranked #21 on that list of the most "popular" and considered best female vocalists over the last 40 years... "ain't just chopped liver". It's one reason among many why I believe she has a good and maybe great future in "the music business". But like most young people in any business, she needs good management and especially a good mentor to get and keep her going down the right road to success, whatever she envisions that to be. www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/100-greatest-women-in-music-of-the-last-thirty-yearsJust curious as to why the 3 identical posts???
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Post by jcas on Jun 6, 2021 9:13:33 GMT -5
No clue. And who is "Deleted" and where did he appear from that posted the extras?
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Post by Willyiam on Jun 6, 2021 10:56:43 GMT -5
No clue. And who is "Deleted" and where did he appear from that posted the extras? We went down 1 member from 201 to 200 so I guess Deleted got Deleted!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 11:54:54 GMT -5
Nobody among us on this Jackie Evancho proboard, most certainly including me, really has any clue as to the meaning of her disappearance from social media or why she's done it. But I cannot agree it's because her career is "broken"; irreparably over; done with. It is only if she decides it is and no one here knows that or can unless they have some inside track to her and what she's thinking. I do believe it's wounded, probably severely .... as is Jackie. The wounds were first inflicted, imho, in 2016 when it became public that her mother was militantly trying to jam her solution to what should have remained private Evancho family issues down the throats of parents in not only her kid's school district, but those in the rest of the State of Pennsylvania and beyond; enlisting LBGTQ militants to join her in her "mission". Jackie, unfortunately, but necessarily, signed on. That weirded out and turned off many in the base that had helped her build her career from day one. Following very soon after was her decision to accept President Trump's invitation to sing the National Anthem at his Inauguration as President of the United States. She had to have been blind sided by the reaction of 1/2 the Nation and probably what was 1/2 of her remaining base to her decision that became a target to those insanely infected with the Trump Derangement Syndrome. Has anyone here already forgotten the vicious, truly hateful, venomous messages that overwhelmed her social media for months following what she accepted as a rare honor and privilege ... as would any right thinking American citizen who loved their Country? Worse yet, they were purposefully aimed and fired at a 16 year old; just a teen; many of the most vicious and hurtful of the posts coming ironically from the homosexual community who turned on her for seeming to support their most hated nemesis, President Trump. Are Jackie's career troubles actually due to her shortcomings or failure as a musical artist or more to cultural issues and the politics that appear inevitably downstream from them? I think what was especially interesting about Jackie's performance as The Kitty, was the audience's recognition and acceptance of her as an extraordinary talent and performer without having a clue as to who was inside the costume; in fact, one of the best that had ever appeared on that program. An objectively based evaluation if there ever was one. It, unfortunately, was a rare opportunity to repair previously inflicted damage to her career, lost to the Covid hysteria that damaged or destroyed opportunities for performers and many others all over the world the following year and into the next. I don't think there can be any doubt that Jackie has been severely hurt, personally and professionally, but for reasons totally beyond her ability or any one else's to control. lol...TDS is real and of course a lot of liberals attacked Jackie irrationally and unfairly over her singing at his inauguration. I mean, how bizarre is that, that people would attack a singer of the national anthem at the inauguration of a duly elected American president. Nothing more American than that. Point is, she didn't lose many fans...she didn't have that many fans to begin with by that time, and I guarantee you most of her fan base weren't raging, irrational liberals who would have dumped their beloved, angelic singer just because she sang at an inauguration...most of them they were conservative, older folks. She did NOT lose many fans due to the inauguration....that's just a silly thing to say. In fact if you bought into that argument, then you could also argue she would have also picked up a bunch of new fans from Trump supporters. Neither happened. Now, she might have lost a number of fans had she been wildly popular beforehand and had a fan base made up of a lot of lefties...but clearly that wasn't the case. As far as her sister is concerned, did she lose a little of her base from all of that transgender support stuff? She lost a few, but it was a very small number of people. Both the inauguration and transgender issues were minor, tangential events that had a very small impact on her actual fan base. She hit it big as a young child with a big, beautiful voice in a very limiting genre (as opposed to pop for instance). She grew up, and as she got older the novelty of her being a child was gone. Also, her mostly older fan base gradually started dying off. It's been over ten years. Lisa has often spoken to these things, and complained that labels don't support and nurture the development of young talent. She and the family has seen the obvious writing on the wall for years and Jackie's fan base has steadily declined. Several times Jackie has attempted to shift genres, but to no avail. She is just another voice in the large pool of young talent in the pop genre...and just doesn't stand out enough to have success there. Stop blaming her steady and clear decline on things like singing at Trump's inauguration or supporting her sister. It's simply not true, nor is it the root cause of her decline. Those had very minor effects on her career and fan base, and if neither had occurred, she would still be in the same spot that she is today...the decline was clearly happening long before either of those two things occurred, and didn't suddenly accelerate with either of those two events.
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Post by geb on Jun 6, 2021 21:43:12 GMT -5
Here's a link to an interesting ranking of the "Greatest Women In Music, 1980s to today." published in March 2020. Guess what, Jackie is ranked #21 among the 150 listed and above her favorite singer, Lady Gaga. One's musical taste goes to the very definition of what is "subjective". My attention span in trying to listen to the up and coming Angelina Jordan, who to me is just another in a long and forgettable line of Mariah Carrey wannabes, lasts less than 30 seconds. Jackie? I've never tired of listening to any song she's ever sung from the first time I heard her, because most all are of a quality that's makes them timelessly listenable by a musical artist whose renditions of them is also of that same extraordinarily high quality. Call me an OTT Jackie fan. But the list I've just linked you to ... seems to agree with my point of view and what and who pleases both my ears and soul to listen to. Being ranked #21 on that list of the most "popular" and considered best female vocalists over the last 40 years... "ain't just chopped liver". It's one reason among many why I believe she has a good and maybe great future in "the music business". But like most young people in any business, she needs good management and especially a good mentor to get and keep her going down the right road to success, whatever she envisions that to be. www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/100-greatest-women-in-music-of-the-last-thirty-yearsOriginally by Ranker Community Updated March 18, 2020 251.7k votes 21.8k voters 437.2k views 188 items So 21,800 or so people rank Jackie as #21. And 11,100 or so people rank Jackie as the #10 Soprano of all time. And 81,000 or so people rank Jackie as the 189th greatest musical artist of all time. Not exactly large voter pools. Which most likely have been tainted by the known practice of Jackie fans dumping lots of votes into these online polls. I would more trust the results of a poll of millions upon millions of people that was done on YouTube or Twitter or Instagram than I would trust those by a tiny online ranking website. I love Jackie's voice, but is she the 21st best female singer of the last 30 years? And the 10th best Soprano of all time where virtually all the other singers are professional Opera singers? And the 189th greatest musical artist of all time beating out people like Aretha Franklin, Scott Joplin, Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer, James Taylor, Benny Goodman, Carole King, Chicago, Bonnie Raitt, Jeff Beck, Nina Simone, Richard Wagner, Tom Waits, The Allman Brothers Band and about 1,700 others? I doubt these ranking would hold up if you were to ask 20 or 30 or 50 or more millions of people worldwide. Let us see a few who managed to not make the list: Jane Zhang: winner of 206 of 286 award nominations including China's Best Female Singer 9 times. One of China's leading contemporary singers. One of the few singers in the world who can sing The Diva Dance from the movie The Fifth Element as written. As everyone probably knows, China is the #2 entertainment market in the world (in 2020 China passed US as the #1 film marketplace in the world), so her accomplishments are nothing to sneeze at. Etc, Etc. Sarah Brightman: Only the number 2 seller of classical crossover albums ever at roughly 35 million that is roughly 10 times more than Jackie has sold. She is the world's best selling soprano by a long margin. In 2010, Sarah was named by Billboard the fifth most influential and best-selling classical artist of the 2000s decade in the US with 6.5 million albums sold or double what Jackie has sold her entire career. Etc, Etc. Sissel: Norwegian. Considered one of the world's top crossover sopranos. Her musical style ranges from pop recordings and folk songs, to classical vocals and operatic arias. She has sold about 10 million albums, even though she sells mostly in Norway, a country of 5 million people. This is 3 times what Jackie has sold in a country of 330 million. Etc, Etc. Etc, etc In other words, these Jackie rankings are poor at best.
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Post by trebor on Oct 17, 2021 8:45:21 GMT -5
Very interesting poll. Do not understand why Linda Rondstandt is at #44. To most people, the fact that she was a groumd-breaker for women in multiple genres is a statement as to her greatness. Both Linda and Jackie are/were more than singers...they actually were song stylist that took any song and made it their own Jackie, as Kitty sang in different genres that proved she can do anything she sets her mind to. I hope this last year has been her perfecting the all-around musical stylist that she has expressed an interest in many times. CC may be her entrance into her fame, but she is much, much more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 12:39:22 GMT -5
Very interesting poll. Do not understand why Linda Rondstandt is at #44. To most people, the fact that she was a groumd-breaker for women in multiple genres is a statement as to her greatness. Both Linda and Jackie are/were more than singers...they actually were song stylist that took any song and made it their own Jackie, as Kitty sang in different genres that proved she can do anything she sets her mind to. I hope this last year has been her perfecting the all-around musical stylist that she has expressed an interest in many times. CC may be her entrance into her fame, but she is much, much more. CC is her claim to fame. In other genres like pop, she doesn't stand out. Her voice singing pop music is nice, its sweet, but it doesn't stand out enough to get noticed or grow her fan base. Even with her current dwindling fan base, they like her cc the best because it's what she sings the best and it stands out in a crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 14:42:14 GMT -5
Very interesting poll. Do not understand why Linda Rondstandt is at #44. To most people, the fact that she was a groumd-breaker for women in multiple genres is a statement as to her greatness. Both Linda and Jackie are/were more than singers...they actually were song stylist that took any song and made it their own Jackie, as Kitty sang in different genres that proved she can do anything she sets her mind to. I hope this last year has been her perfecting the all-around musical stylist that she has expressed an interest in many times. CC may be her entrance into her fame, but she is much, much more. CC is her claim to fame. In other genres like pop, she doesn't stand out. Her voice singing pop music is nice, its sweet, but it doesn't stand out enough to get noticed or grow her fan base. Even with her current dwindling fan base, they like her cc the best because it's what she sings the best and it stands out in a crowd. There are a lot of successful pop singers who don't have special voices. Most of the time these pop singers have rather bad voices. Describing Jackie's voice as cute is bullshit. Jackie has to find her way. Her career doesn't seem to be her priority right now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 20:09:22 GMT -5
CC is her claim to fame. In other genres like pop, she doesn't stand out. Her voice singing pop music is nice, its sweet, but it doesn't stand out enough to get noticed or grow her fan base. Even with her current dwindling fan base, they like her cc the best because it's what she sings the best and it stands out in a crowd. There are a lot of successful pop singers who don't have special voices. Most of the time these pop singers have rather bad voices. Describing Jackie's voice as cute is bullshit. Jackie has to find her way. Her career doesn't seem to be her priority right now. I never described her voice as "cute". Cuteness came into play when she was the child with the huge, angelic voice. Now she's an adult...the cuteness/innocence/sweetness is largely gone now...that was a large part of her schtick. Her voice is still gorgeous and it's pure...when she sings cc it shines. When she sings pop music, it's nice, but unremarkable and doesn't stand out or attract a new, younger audience which makes up the vast bulk of the pop music fan base. Jackie's a very sheltered conservative introvert with no original, edgy material, nor the unique voice or charismatic personality to make it big in a new genre like pop. It's very difficult for singers to cross genres and transfer that success to the new genre, even more so when the initial fame was as a child. Jackie has been trying to find her way for a number of years now...and has failingly tried to break into other genres. Problem is, her cc fan base is dying off and there is nobody to replace them. Jackie's own mother has acknowledged that. Jackie will likely always have a her smallish but dwindling fan base from the AGT days, and can likely make a living off her concerts for some years to come. But her career likely peaked years ago...and I think she has come to realize that. Nothing wrong with that...she's had a hell of a ride and career, something most singers would kill for.
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Post by lawrence on Jul 16, 2022 23:16:23 GMT -5
her career likely peaked years ago...and I think she has come to realize that. Nothing wrong with that...she's had a hell of a ride and career, something most singers would kill for. One cannot reasonably disagree, at present anyway. We don't know what the more distant future holds for her. However, from that perspective, it makes sense that Jackie has apparently determined to pursue what gratifies her as an artist, not particularly concerned about her popularity with any particular generation or audience, rather seeking out music that inspires her. Two Hearts was her last true cc album. Since then she has delved into contemporary Broadway, selecting songs she called "pivotal" that held special meaning for her. And, recently researching Joni Mitchell's music and choosing songs she felt a personal connection with. It was only a little over two years ago she said in an interview with ET: "I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who have been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover. It's not like that will disappear. But I hope my fans will decide to grow with me.".... "Nothing is off limits. My plan is going to be doing anything and everything that I have the urge to do, whether that's writing songs in any genre, recording them and putting them out there...I want to create videos....take all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and put them out to the world" That doesn't sound like a new direction but simply a different approach to continuing her career from the standpoint of doing what fulfills her artistic needs. While secretly writing her own songs, It seems that discovering music she identifies with is what motivates her. I'm reminded of what she said at the end of her interview with Masked Singer, "I'm learning that authenticity is really the best way to go through life, without caring about people's opinions..." Musically, Jackie is on a personal path she hasn't defined yet. Will we continue to accompany and support her, however her vision manifests along the way? Here's what David Foster had to say several years ago about "faltering" in one's career:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 0:30:28 GMT -5
her career likely peaked years ago...and I think she has come to realize that. Nothing wrong with that...she's had a hell of a ride and career, something most singers would kill for. One cannot reasonably disagree, at present anyway. We don't know what the more distant future holds for her. However, from that perspective, it makes sense that Jackie has apparently determined to pursue what gratifies her as an artist, not particularly concerned about her popularity with any particular generation or audience, rather seeking out music that inspires her. Two Hearts was her last true cc album. Since then she has delved into contemporary Broadway, selecting songs she called "pivotal" that held special meaning for her. And, recently researching Joni Mitchell's music and choosing songs she felt a personal connection with. It was only a little over two years ago she said in an interview with ET: "I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who have been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover. It's not like that will disappear. But I hope my fans will decide to grow with me.".... "Nothing is off limits. My plan is going to be doing anything and everything that I have the urge to do, whether that's writing songs in any genre, recording them and putting them out there...I want to create videos....take all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and put them out to the world" That doesn't sound like a new direction but simply a different approach to continuing her career from the standpoint of doing what fulfills her artistic needs. While secretly writing her own songs, It seems that discovering music she identifies with is what motivates her. I'm reminded of what she said at the end of her interview with Masked Singer, "I'm learning that authenticity is really the best way to go through life, without caring about people's opinions..." Musically, Jackie is on a personal path she hasn't defined yet. Will we continue to accompany and support her, however her vision manifests along the way? Here's what David Foster had to say several years ago about "faltering" in one's career: Accompaniment and support through feedback and criticism.
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Post by trebor on Aug 21, 2022 7:20:01 GMT -5
Who agrees with this???
She didn’t write it but she took any song and elevated it into something that far transcends its source. The sympathy, the elocution, her clarity of vision make any song remarkable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 9:53:52 GMT -5
One cannot reasonably disagree, at present anyway. We don't know what the more distant future holds for her. However, from that perspective, it makes sense that Jackie has apparently determined to pursue what gratifies her as an artist, not particularly concerned about her popularity with any particular generation or audience, rather seeking out music that inspires her. Two Hearts was her last true cc album. Since then she has delved into contemporary Broadway, selecting songs she called "pivotal" that held special meaning for her. And, recently researching Joni Mitchell's music and choosing songs she felt a personal connection with. It was only a little over two years ago she said in an interview with ET: "I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who have been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover. It's not like that will disappear. But I hope my fans will decide to grow with me.".... "Nothing is off limits. My plan is going to be doing anything and everything that I have the urge to do, whether that's writing songs in any genre, recording them and putting them out there...I want to create videos....take all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and put them out to the world" That doesn't sound like a new direction but simply a different approach to continuing her career from the standpoint of doing what fulfills her artistic needs. While secretly writing her own songs, It seems that discovering music she identifies with is what motivates her. I'm reminded of what she said at the end of her interview with Masked Singer, "I'm learning that authenticity is really the best way to go through life, without caring about people's opinions..." Musically, Jackie is on a personal path she hasn't defined yet. Will we continue to accompany and support her, however her vision manifests along the way? Here's what David Foster had to say several years ago about "faltering" in one's career: Accompaniment and support through feedback and criticism. Its one thing to try new things, attack from new angles, etc. Jackie has tried putting original songs on an album. She's tried Broadway songs. She's now trying Joni Mitchell songs. It's very very difficult to successfully re-invent yourself in this business, especially when your height of fame was a decade ago as a kid. Most never are able to do that. Jackie has to keep the fan base happy by singing her signature stuff back from her early days as well as the new stuff. If she stopped doing that, her smallish fan base would crumble. Chances are quite low that she will be successful in substantially adding to her fanbase by reinventing herself. Should she keep trying? Of course, but you don't throw out what works in the meantime...that is career suicide. She's not stupid...she doesn't want to sing into music oblivion.
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Post by lawrence on Aug 21, 2022 11:24:50 GMT -5
Its one thing to try new things, attack from new angles, etc. Jackie has tried putting original songs on an album. She's tried Broadway songs. She's now trying Joni Mitchell songs. It's very very difficult to successfully re-invent yourself in this business, especially when your height of fame was a decade ago as a kid. Most never are able to do that. Jackie has to keep the fan base happy by singing her signature stuff back from her early days as well as the new stuff. If she stopped doing that, her smallish fan base would crumble. Chances are quite low that she will be successful in substantially adding to her fanbase by reinventing herself. Should she keep trying? Of course, but you don't throw out what works in the meantime...that is career suicide. She's not stupid...she doesn't want to sing into music oblivion. "I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who have been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover. It's not like that will disappear. But I hope my fans will decide to grow with me.".... "Nothing is off limits. My plan is going to be doing anything and everything that I have the urge to do, whether that's writing songs in any genre, recording them and putting them out there...I want to create videos....take all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and put them out to the world" Jackie has already re-invented herself as an adult artist which had been her objective for a long time while stuck with the image of the "little girl with the big voice". She doesn't need to create a "new image". Rather, what she needs is to simply be acknowledged for who she is and what she has to offer. Apparently Jackie will continue appealing to fans with her concert repertoire of favorites mixed with current songs from album to album as long she's gratified, while taking "all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and putting them out to the world", in whatever form they take. This is Jackie's bus were riding on wherever the road leads. Some get off and some get on along the way. I'm enjoying the ride and have little need to be entertained by what has passed (I have albums to listen to). I'm interested in the present scenery and look forward to what's around the next bend. Yes, it's been "a great ride". But, the ride is NOT over, with new things to discover on this perpetual journey. Jackie will outlast her "smallish fan base" which will "crumble" of it own accord.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 12:19:50 GMT -5
Its one thing to try new things, attack from new angles, etc. Jackie has tried putting original songs on an album. She's tried Broadway songs. She's now trying Joni Mitchell songs. It's very very difficult to successfully re-invent yourself in this business, especially when your height of fame was a decade ago as a kid. Most never are able to do that. Jackie has to keep the fan base happy by singing her signature stuff back from her early days as well as the new stuff. If she stopped doing that, her smallish fan base would crumble. Chances are quite low that she will be successful in substantially adding to her fanbase by reinventing herself. Should she keep trying? Of course, but you don't throw out what works in the meantime...that is career suicide. She's not stupid...she doesn't want to sing into music oblivion. "I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who have been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover. It's not like that will disappear. But I hope my fans will decide to grow with me.".... "Nothing is off limits. My plan is going to be doing anything and everything that I have the urge to do, whether that's writing songs in any genre, recording them and putting them out there...I want to create videos....take all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and put them out to the world" Jackie has already re-invented herself as an adult artist which had been her objective for a long time while stuck with the image of the "little girl with the big voice". She doesn't need to create a "new image". Rather, what she needs is to simply be acknowledged for who she is and what she has to offer. Apparently Jackie will continue appealing to fans with her concert repertoire of favorites mixed with current songs from album to album as long she's gratified, while taking "all these ideas that are wrapped in my head and putting them out to the world", in whatever form they take. This is Jackie's bus were riding on wherever the road leads. Some get off and some get on along the way. I'm enjoying the ride and have little need to be entertained by what has passed (I have albums to listen to). I'm interested in the present scenery and look forward to what's around the next bend. Yes, it's been "a great ride". But, the ride is NOT over, with new things to discover on this perpetual journey. Jackie will outlast her "smallish fan base" which will "crumble" of it own accord. She has been trying re-invent herself as an adult artist and lose the "innocent child star" label, no doubt. But she is still searching for new commercial success and apparently a way to write original songs and get them heard. It's all part or re-invention and exploration in a career. It's a process and she is still working on it. Jackie would fully agree with this, it's a pretty simple concept. I agree with a lot of what you said there. However, the last sentence is FAR from certain. Her smallish but loyal fan base is all she's got, and she has thus far been unable to substantially increase it. That's part of the re-invention and exploration into other genres and songwriting. If she were to lose her current fanbase today, her career would be over as nobody would come to her shows or buy her albums. The struggle isn't to maintian her smallish fanbase...it's pretty loyal although it is gradually dying off. Her struggle is to re-invent the commercial success as an artist that she once had a decade ago. That has thus far proven to be entirely elusive.
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