It seems these shirts will sell well in Boston, GEB. Other places? Not as much. People resent the Pats' success. They were probably outclassed athletically in their past 2 super bowl victories, but won both because of superior coaching.
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2017 13:07:35 GMT -5 by pgantioch
I resent them because of their cheating and lying about it while the owner does nothing. Now the Commissioner is vilified for punishing the team WHICH THEY DESERVED.
What cheating & lying? You mean videotaping other teams' signals & practices? The reason Al Davis was always paranoid about everything?
It was wrong, but hardly a new idea. Did NFL rules prohibit it? If not, they should have.
As far as "deflategate", there is PRECISELY ZERO evidence the Pats did anything wrong, as demonstrated by the laws of physics. However, as GEB documented, the NFL CLEARLY was wrong in their testing procedures. If the NFL didn't want teams to glove balls & THEN check their pressures, they should have said that. And when they evaluated the Pats' procedures, there is NO doubt they should have gloved first, then checked pressures, not the other way around. They were either totally incompetent or totally deceitful. Hence, it would have been far more reasonable to fire Goodell, for either incompetence or dishonesty, than it was to punish the Pats.
So we'll probably have to agree to disagree. Did you actually read what GEB said about it? I would note that after they received his letter, they backed off & just said it was the Commissioner's discretion to decide about punishment, regardless of the evidence.
The Appeals courts NEVER ruled that the Patriots did anything wrong. In fact, in the first Appeals court case, when the NFL's lawyers were asked if there was any evidence that Tom Brady had asked anybody to change the air pressure in the footballs after the referee Walt Anderson had checked and approved the footballs for use in the football game, the NFL lawyers, now under oath, stated that there was no evidence that Tom Brady asked anybody to do anything outside of the NFL rules.
In fact, one of the amicus briefs filed during the Second Circuit court proceedings was by 20 or so science Professors from around the country stating that the Exponent "science" was essentially junk science and BS and wrong.
What the Second Circuit ruling stated was that the player's agreement allowed Roger Goodell to rule any way he wanted based upon what he believed. It did not matter whether or not Roger Goodell was right or wrong in his interpretations, or if the Exponent "science" was proven to be junk science. The Second Circuit said he could rule anyway he wanted to rule.
Here is MIT Professor John Leonard debunking the Exponent "science" as completely wrong. Note that he states upfront that he is not a Patriots fan but a Philadelphia Eagles fan who got his heart broken when the Patriots beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl.
And if this was not enough, all one has to go to the Wells Report itself and the Exponent Report to see in black and white that there were serious issues, possibly fraud, happening. That is providing one could read and piece together information that was separated by 100 pages.
For example, Exponent stated that Bill Belichick's press conference statement that gloving a football could have had a long-term lowering of pressure was claimed to be wrong per Exponent's testing of the Patriot's gloving procedure.
The problem with that statement by Exponent was that they NEVER tested the Patriots gloving process to make that conclusion! That is the ultimate example of junk science. Namely, make a conclusion based on not testing what was done.
The Patriots gloved the football, then set the pressure to 12.6 psi while the football was still hot (see pages 49-50 of Wells Report). In other words, the Patriots gloved the football raising the temperature of the football which raised the football pressure. They then removed hot air from the football to set the pressure to 12.6 psi. And when the football further cooled to the ambient temperature surrounding the football, the pressure had to further drop, unless you do not believe in physics.
Exponent set the pressure to 12.5 psi when the football was cold, and then gloved the football (see pages 33-35 of Appendix 1 of Wells Report). In other words, Exponent NEVER removed hot air in the football after gloving to reset the pressure! Exponent left out the final step of the Patriots gloving procedure!
To put it bluntly, the Exponent gloving procedure test was a fraudulent test.
The question is why?
Did the NFL's lawyers not give Exponent the correct Patriots gloving process and Exponent happened to guess wrong? That would be fraud on the part of the NFL lawyers.
Was Exponent given the correct Patriots gloving process and Exponent purposely did not test it. That is fraud by Exponent.
Or was what was given to Exponent an incorrect Patriots gloving process where the NFL lawyers made an "honest" mistake. Of course, it was "honest" if that was what happened. Sure.
Or somehow the four Exponent people doing the actual testing plus the Princeton Physics Professor Dr. Daniel Marlow, who was a technical consultant hired to verify everything was done reasonably correct, just somehow missed the fact that the Patriots gloving process had a resetting of the football pressure AFTER gloving was done. If that is true, then it does not say much for the technical competence of these people.
Unfortunately, what was being challenged in the Appeals court cases was not the scientific accuracy of what Exponent did, but whether or not Roger Goodell was allowed to rule anyway he wanted to rule based solely on what he thought.
My God, as was shown during the first Appeals court case when the notes from the formal NFL appeals hearing with Tom Brady were forced by the court to be publicly released, in Roger-the-Dodger's ruling of the four game suspension it was there in black and white that Roger lied as to what Tom Brady had said during this hearing. And even with an outright lie in the ruling, the courts eventually ruled that Roger-the-Dodger could make any ruling he wanted, even if the ruling he made contained lies!
Now to me, that actually goes against the Federal law regarding when arbitration ruling can be vacated by the courts. According to the Federal Arbitration Act, U.S. Code Title 9, Section 10 an arbitration ruling can be thrown out:
1). where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;
2). where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators, or either of them;
3). where the arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient cause shown, or in refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy; or of any other misbehavior by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced; or
4). where the arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award upon the subject matter submitted was not made.
Items 2 to 4 are essentially procedural in nature. That is, a Court can determine from recorded hearings, written and verbal statements, and other procedural information whether or not an accused basic rights as defined here have been infringed upon to a high enough degree to merit overturning an arbitration ruling.
However, item 1 typically requires discovery in order to determine if "corruption, fraud, or undue means" has occurred.
And by the Courts not allowing full discovery of correspondence between the parties acting on the NFL's side, the hiding of possible criminal activity can be shielded from the defense of an accused.
In my opinion that is wrong, but arbitration is purposely streamlined and an arbitrator is allowed to block discovery if they want to do so. And if an arbitration ruling is contested in the courts, it really is up to the judge(s) whether or not any form of discovery will be allowed.
In many ways, it was fortunate that Judge Berman forced the NFL to release the Tom Brady appeal hearing notes (against the NFL's objections). And without them being released, we would have ever had definitive proof that Roger-the-Dodger had lied in his arbitration ruling.
Anyway, this is all water under the bridge now as the damage has already been done to both Tom Brady and the Patriots.
The Appeals courts NEVER ruled that the Patriots did anything wrong. In fact, in the first Appeals court case, when the NFL's lawyer's were asked if there was any evidence that Tom Brady had asked anybody to change the air pressure in the footballs after the referee Walt Anderson had checked and approved the footballs for use in the football game, the NFL lawyers, now under oath, stated that there was no evidence that Tom Brady asked anybody to do anything outside of the NFL rules.
rickolsen: My cole slaw is gone. I've got half the Greek pasta salad and potato salad left. I'm not supposed to eat pasta or potatoes, but my doctor said I can eat them in moderation. When you are diabetic you can't eat anything good or cheap. I eat what I want.
Feb 1, 2020 19:21:08 GMT -5
rickolsen: My cats are all sleeping. Phoenix and Sampson are in on my bed. Brandie is on the loveseat here in the livingroom with me. I'm watching football and munching corn chips. If you like corn chips get Great Value corn chips at Walmart. They are really good.
Feb 3, 2020 0:29:55 GMT -5
rickolsen: It is 10:00 am. My cats are all sleeping. Phoenix and Sampson are in on my bed. Brandie is on the love seat. I didn't give them gravy dinner because they didn't ask for it. When they do I will give it to them. I'm watching football.
Feb 3, 2020 10:02:55 GMT -5
rickolsen: I just gave my cats some gravy dinner. Prime filet chicken. They like that kind. They are gobbling it down. They will be sleeping soon. I'm watching football.
Feb 5, 2020 3:02:25 GMT -5
rickolsen: Brandie is sleeping on the love seat. Phoenix and Sampson are sleeping in on my bed. I'm watching football. Almost all of our snow is melted away.
Feb 7, 2020 10:18:07 GMT -5
rickolsen: My brother died yesterday. We weren't close. Now I'm the only son of 4 left. All 3 of my cats are on my desk. They came to see me.
Feb 10, 2020 16:54:26 GMT -5
Willyiam: May your Brother RIP!!
Feb 14, 2020 8:31:08 GMT -5
rickolsen: Thanks. I haven't seen, or spoken to my brother since my biological mother's funeral in 2009. I was adopted and didn't meet my biological family until 20 years ago when I was 44. We were never close. I see my biological father once in awhile.
Feb 18, 2020 18:32:02 GMT -5
rickolsen: One of my sisters found me. I didn't go looking for them. My cats are all sleeping. I'm watching football, and I'm hungry, so I'm making a big pot of stew. Of course it has mushrooms and lots of garlic.
Feb 18, 2020 18:37:03 GMT -5
rickolsen: My stew is so good I wish I could share it with you. I'm glad Agog suggested I cook my own food. I'm a good cook, it's cheaper, tastes better, and it's better for you. I love to cook so it works out perfectly.
Feb 18, 2020 18:55:35 GMT -5
rickolsen: I would cook for my cats, but they need cat food from the store. It has all the minerals and nutrients they need including taurin for good health. You should resist the temptation to feed your cat or dog people food. Give them the pet food they need.
Feb 18, 2020 19:05:10 GMT -5
rickolsen: All 3 of my cats are in the livingroom with me. Brandie is on the loveseat. Phoenix is on the arm of the arm chair and Sampson is on the couch. Today is trash day. I have to run a few errands and then I'm going to put out my trash.
Feb 19, 2020 7:45:25 GMT -5
rickolsen: I just gave my cats some gravy dinner. Chicken, turkey, casserole. They like it. They will be sleeping soon.
Feb 20, 2020 22:20:20 GMT -5
nipper: So Jackie's part in Disney dream weddings will air this coming Friday I believe on Disney + channel. Does anyone have that channel? I believe it is an streaming channel!
Feb 23, 2020 8:45:31 GMT -5
nipper: Does anyone have a hunch on what the exciting collaboration Jackie talked about last month that will happen this year?
Feb 23, 2020 8:46:56 GMT -5
johnnyb: Sorry Nipper, Jackie fans have left the building, head over to Jackie Amazon if you want to have a conversation or find some news on Jackie's career. Unfortunately Rick has lost interest in Jackie and now only wants to talk about his cats. 😺
Feb 23, 2020 14:27:13 GMT -5
nipper: I see that. As an Ice breaker should I talk about my cat who died in October?
Feb 23, 2020 20:54:02 GMT -5
jamesn: Sounds like a good idea - at least it would be different!
Feb 25, 2020 17:18:48 GMT -5
jamesn: Or maybe I should talk about the really nifty 100-year-old WW I trench knife I just received in the mail!
Feb 25, 2020 17:20:21 GMT -5
jamesn: Seriously, I'm hoping Bastet posts a review/account of Jackie's upcoming Colorado concert. I haven't been to one since last February in Lufkin, TX.
Feb 25, 2020 17:23:21 GMT -5