It seems these shirts will sell well in Boston, GEB. Other places? Not as much. People resent the Pats' success. They were probably outclassed athletically in their past 2 super bowl victories, but won both because of superior coaching.
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2017 13:07:35 GMT -5 by pgantioch
I resent them because of their cheating and lying about it while the owner does nothing. Now the Commissioner is vilified for punishing the team WHICH THEY DESERVED.
What cheating & lying? You mean videotaping other teams' signals & practices? The reason Al Davis was always paranoid about everything?
It was wrong, but hardly a new idea. Did NFL rules prohibit it? If not, they should have.
As far as "deflategate", there is PRECISELY ZERO evidence the Pats did anything wrong, as demonstrated by the laws of physics. However, as GEB documented, the NFL CLEARLY was wrong in their testing procedures. If the NFL didn't want teams to glove balls & THEN check their pressures, they should have said that. And when they evaluated the Pats' procedures, there is NO doubt they should have gloved first, then checked pressures, not the other way around. They were either totally incompetent or totally deceitful. Hence, it would have been far more reasonable to fire Goodell, for either incompetence or dishonesty, than it was to punish the Pats.
So we'll probably have to agree to disagree. Did you actually read what GEB said about it? I would note that after they received his letter, they backed off & just said it was the Commissioner's discretion to decide about punishment, regardless of the evidence.
The Appeals courts NEVER ruled that the Patriots did anything wrong. In fact, in the first Appeals court case, when the NFL's lawyers were asked if there was any evidence that Tom Brady had asked anybody to change the air pressure in the footballs after the referee Walt Anderson had checked and approved the footballs for use in the football game, the NFL lawyers, now under oath, stated that there was no evidence that Tom Brady asked anybody to do anything outside of the NFL rules.
In fact, one of the amicus briefs filed during the Second Circuit court proceedings was by 20 or so science Professors from around the country stating that the Exponent "science" was essentially junk science and BS and wrong.
What the Second Circuit ruling stated was that the player's agreement allowed Roger Goodell to rule any way he wanted based upon what he believed. It did not matter whether or not Roger Goodell was right or wrong in his interpretations, or if the Exponent "science" was proven to be junk science. The Second Circuit said he could rule anyway he wanted to rule.
Here is MIT Professor John Leonard debunking the Exponent "science" as completely wrong. Note that he states upfront that he is not a Patriots fan but a Philadelphia Eagles fan who got his heart broken when the Patriots beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl.
And if this was not enough, all one has to go to the Wells Report itself and the Exponent Report to see in black and white that there were serious issues, possibly fraud, happening. That is providing one could read and piece together information that was separated by 100 pages.
For example, Exponent stated that Bill Belichick's press conference statement that gloving a football could have had a long-term lowering of pressure was claimed to be wrong per Exponent's testing of the Patriot's gloving procedure.
The problem with that statement by Exponent was that they NEVER tested the Patriots gloving process to make that conclusion! That is the ultimate example of junk science. Namely, make a conclusion based on not testing what was done.
The Patriots gloved the football, then set the pressure to 12.6 psi while the football was still hot (see pages 49-50 of Wells Report). In other words, the Patriots gloved the football raising the temperature of the football which raised the football pressure. They then removed hot air from the football to set the pressure to 12.6 psi. And when the football further cooled to the ambient temperature surrounding the football, the pressure had to further drop, unless you do not believe in physics.
Exponent set the pressure to 12.5 psi when the football was cold, and then gloved the football (see pages 33-35 of Appendix 1 of Wells Report). In other words, Exponent NEVER removed hot air in the football after gloving to reset the pressure! Exponent left out the final step of the Patriots gloving procedure!
To put it bluntly, the Exponent gloving procedure test was a fraudulent test.
The question is why?
Did the NFL's lawyers not give Exponent the correct Patriots gloving process and Exponent happened to guess wrong? That would be fraud on the part of the NFL lawyers.
Was Exponent given the correct Patriots gloving process and Exponent purposely did not test it. That is fraud by Exponent.
Or was what was given to Exponent an incorrect Patriots gloving process where the NFL lawyers made an "honest" mistake. Of course, it was "honest" if that was what happened. Sure.
Or somehow the four Exponent people doing the actual testing plus the Princeton Physics Professor Dr. Daniel Marlow, who was a technical consultant hired to verify everything was done reasonably correct, just somehow missed the fact that the Patriots gloving process had a resetting of the football pressure AFTER gloving was done. If that is true, then it does not say much for the technical competence of these people.
Unfortunately, what was being challenged in the Appeals court cases was not the scientific accuracy of what Exponent did, but whether or not Roger Goodell was allowed to rule anyway he wanted to rule based solely on what he thought.
My God, as was shown during the first Appeals court case when the notes from the formal NFL appeals hearing with Tom Brady were forced by the court to be publicly released, in Roger-the-Dodger's ruling of the four game suspension it was there in black and white that Roger lied as to what Tom Brady had said during this hearing. And even with an outright lie in the ruling, the courts eventually ruled that Roger-the-Dodger could make any ruling he wanted, even if the ruling he made contained lies!
Now to me, that actually goes against the Federal law regarding when arbitration ruling can be vacated by the courts. According to the Federal Arbitration Act, U.S. Code Title 9, Section 10 an arbitration ruling can be thrown out:
1). where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;
2). where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators, or either of them;
3). where the arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient cause shown, or in refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy; or of any other misbehavior by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced; or
4). where the arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award upon the subject matter submitted was not made.
Items 2 to 4 are essentially procedural in nature. That is, a Court can determine from recorded hearings, written and verbal statements, and other procedural information whether or not an accused basic rights as defined here have been infringed upon to a high enough degree to merit overturning an arbitration ruling.
However, item 1 typically requires discovery in order to determine if "corruption, fraud, or undue means" has occurred.
And by the Courts not allowing full discovery of correspondence between the parties acting on the NFL's side, the hiding of possible criminal activity can be shielded from the defense of an accused.
In my opinion that is wrong, but arbitration is purposely streamlined and an arbitrator is allowed to block discovery if they want to do so. And if an arbitration ruling is contested in the courts, it really is up to the judge(s) whether or not any form of discovery will be allowed.
In many ways, it was fortunate that Judge Berman forced the NFL to release the Tom Brady appeal hearing notes (against the NFL's objections). And without them being released, we would have ever had definitive proof that Roger-the-Dodger had lied in his arbitration ruling.
Anyway, this is all water under the bridge now as the damage has already been done to both Tom Brady and the Patriots.
The Appeals courts NEVER ruled that the Patriots did anything wrong. In fact, in the first Appeals court case, when the NFL's lawyer's were asked if there was any evidence that Tom Brady had asked anybody to change the air pressure in the footballs after the referee Walt Anderson had checked and approved the footballs for use in the football game, the NFL lawyers, now under oath, stated that there was no evidence that Tom Brady asked anybody to do anything outside of the NFL rules.
rickolsen: I gave my cats some gravy dinner when they asked for it. I just ate some chicken and noodles. I had a late lunch. I took a nap on the couch. Sampson woke me up so I gave them some gravy dinner. They are happy.
Mar 22, 2020 14:53:10 GMT -5
rickolsen: Living as a shutin with no local tv news I'm kind of sheltered from the world. I went out for food yesterday. There was very little traffic. Our 2 24 hr grocery stores are open from 8:00 to 10:00 now. The shelves are mostly bare.
Mar 22, 2020 15:09:51 GMT -5
rickolsen: Fortunately I have enough food for me and my cats for awhile. I don't need to go out again. I'm not afraid of getting the virus because I just don't come into contact with people. It's important to me that my cats are safe. They are.
Mar 22, 2020 15:12:05 GMT -5
rickolsen: Brandie has been hunting for several nights. She just caught another mouse. I can't find the mouse and she's back in the kitchen hunting. Maybe it got away from her. I saw it in her mouth. I don't think she would eat it. Mystery.
Mar 23, 2020 4:06:45 GMT -5
rickolsen: Brandie is sleeping on the love seat. Sampson is sleeping on my bed and Phoenix is sleeping on my dresser. I am watching football. We will have leaves on the trees in a couple of weeks. I feel good today. It is a good time of year.
Mar 24, 2020 9:53:13 GMT -5
rickolsen: I just saw a robin in my backyard. When you see a robin, in March, in Michigan you know spring is here. There will be leaves on the trees soon and it will get warmer. Robins don't like snow and the cold. Soon I can open my window and get some fresh air.
Mar 24, 2020 16:00:39 GMT -5
rickolsen: Tomorrow is trash day. I put my trash out today so I won't forget like I did last week. It is full to the brim. Two of my neighbors put their trash out today too. I don't know how I generate so much trash, but I do.
Mar 24, 2020 17:46:30 GMT -5
rickolsen: I have about 86 rolls of toilet paper and 40 rolls of paper towels I got on ebay a few months back. I always buy these 2 items in bulk on ebay. I hope Walmart gets some delivery trucks soon. Last time I was there the food shelves were almost empty.
Mar 25, 2020 8:52:01 GMT -5
rickolsen: I gave my cats some gravy dinner a little while ago. Prime Filet Chicken. Brandie is sleeping in the box on the diningroom table. Phoenix and Sampson are sleeping in on my bed. I'm watching football and waiting for the trash truck to get here.
Mar 25, 2020 10:29:05 GMT -5
rickolsen: I think Spring is my favorite time of year. Winter is hard on people with depression because it gets dark so early. My cats are healthy, well fed, and happy. All is good in my world. I can't wait to open my window and get some fresh air.
Mar 26, 2020 6:52:20 GMT -5
rickolsen: The city makes me run my water 24/7 all winter to keep their water pipes from freezing. They just sent me notice I can turn off my water. That means no more cold weather. Yay! I hate cold weather.
Mar 26, 2020 6:57:59 GMT -5
rickolsen: I just saw a robin in my backyard again. Spring is really here. It will be mid 50's for the next week. That's a little chilly for a robin. They fly south when it gets in the 60's. I'm sure they can tolerate it for a week or so.
Mar 26, 2020 11:56:26 GMT -5
rickolsen: I just ate a beef and bean burrito I got at Walmart. Only $1 each. One burrito fills me up and they are so easy. Just pop one in the microwave for a couple of minutes and then enjoy. They are in the Deli section by the subs. Try them.
Mar 26, 2020 12:08:00 GMT -5
johnnyb: They come with a guarantee to cure constipation. 💩
Mar 26, 2020 12:24:00 GMT -5
rickolsen: Has anyone else in the northern part of the country seen a robin? I don't know if they have robins in the west. I know they live from Michigan to Massachusetts.I think this robin will make a nest in my tree. I hope so.
Mar 26, 2020 12:46:28 GMT -5
bounderdriver: Minneapolis has had Robins for about 2 weeks.
Mar 27, 2020 20:33:54 GMT -5
rickolsen: Brandie just caught another mouse. She let it go in the bathroom. She's playing with it. I hope she kills it. I don't like mice in my house.
Mar 27, 2020 23:15:16 GMT -5
seraphin: I saw my first robin yesterday here in Boston - also the woodpeckers are back in their usual territories.
Mar 28, 2020 13:34:55 GMT -5
rickolsen: I am so glad I ordered bulk toilet paper and paper towels from ebay. These seem to be the 2 things people are really hoarding. Order bulk from ebay and it's delivered right to your door.
Mar 29, 2020 7:43:18 GMT -5
rickolsen: Sampson is sleeping on the couch, but Phoenix and Brandie are awake. Phoenix is preening on the livingroom floor and Brandie is hunting in the kitchen. I don't know what she did with the last mouse she caught. I can't find it.
Mar 30, 2020 1:02:20 GMT -5