|
Post by ghost on Apr 7, 2024 15:34:58 GMT -5
Forum Rule #5:
5) Posts with six dislikes will be deleted at Admin discretion.
If controversial issues arise a poll will be created and the members will decide the issue.
The poll will close on April 14 at Noon.
|
|
|
Post by lawrence on Apr 7, 2024 16:16:57 GMT -5
Forum Rule #5: 5) Posts with six dislikes will be deleted at Admin discretion. If controversial issues arise a poll will be created and the members will decide the issue.The poll will close on April 14 at Noon. Meanwhile, willyiam states in Suggestions Box: "Until Admin updates the Forum Rules to expressly limit what can be posted about Other Artists, I will continue to post new performers and update existing artists in Subjects Of Interest To Forum Members!" No doubt geb will follow suit.
|
|
|
Post by lawrence on Apr 7, 2024 16:39:54 GMT -5
One has to commend the persistence of members who will not be deterred from promoting other singers who are perceived by the public/fans to be in competition with Jackie as artists.
|
|
|
Post by Willyiam on Apr 7, 2024 17:11:24 GMT -5
One has to commend the persistence of members who will not be deterred from promoting other singers who are perceived by the public/fans to be in competition with Jackie as artists. Not sure I understand why, if I post a video of Giulia Falcone in Other Artists, according to you I am promoting Giulia Falcone over Jackie!! Yet, conversely, you post a video of the original artist's performance and Jackie's cover, and that is not promoting the original artist???
|
|
|
Post by rlhamil on Apr 7, 2024 17:39:04 GMT -5
One has to commend the persistence of members who will not be deterred from promoting other singers who are perceived by the public/fans to be in competition with Jackie as artists. With finite personal/family entertainment dollars, movies, sports, music, amusement parks, vacations, and who knows what else may be in competition, if you want to get silly about it. But competition is not particularly the point of discussion here, and comparisons (like "why isn't Jackie doing what so-and-so did to succeed?" or for that matter, "Jackie is so much better than so-and-so") are IMO often odious or quickly descend to that, and should be avoided, although IF the former is very dryly limited to career choices and doesn't get personal or go on too long, maybe it's not a problem. Something for "Other Artists", separate as it was before so as to avoid hostile comparisons and to make it easier to choose one's interests, is IMO not evil, because neither Jackie nor anyone else exists in a vacuum; there is always context. The thread comparing Jackie's covers to the originals does that, and by definition has other artists in it. While I think voice is key for singers and Jackie's is among the very best, there are other aspects to performance that I think she's still learning, yet another area where context shouldn't hurt. If it were me, I wouldn't see the point of mentioning here an artist mainly in a genre that Jackie has never done professionally, but I wouldn't rule it out either. edit: there are a number of young singers who have at one time or another mentioned Jackie as an inspiration. And Jackie got some early exposure on another singer's board (Hayley Westenra?). IMO there are absolutely reasons that are indirect connections like that (or direct ones, like those Jackie has performed with) to mention them. Heck, in TMS, a very young Jackie had previously met Bret Michaels, and had performed at the same event as Robin Thicke, and had previously been on AGT when Nick Cannon was hosting there. Connections are all over the place. edit 2: and given previous complaints how quiet it is here, excluding something even marginally relevant doesn't help. There are demonstrably not enough people providing content for a 24/7 active all Jackie all the time forum. And whatever brings someone, if things are reasonably cordial here (unlike say the other site), they might stay for the Jackie-related content.
|
|
|
Post by lawrence on Apr 7, 2024 18:28:31 GMT -5
One has to commend the persistence of members who will not be deterred from promoting other singers who are perceived by the public/fans to be in competition with Jackie as artists. Not sure I understand why, if I post a video of Giulia Falcone in Other Artists, according to you I am promoting Giulia Falcone over Jackie!! Yet, conversely, you post a video of the original artist's performance and Jackie's cover, and that is not promoting the original artist??? I am not promoting any artist considered in competition with Jackie. They are simply the original artists of songs Jackie has covered to show how her renditions are different or similar by comparing their recordings/performances. Would you consider any of these artists competition?.... Lucio Dallo, Bazzi, Ziv Zaifman (boy voice-over singer), Harpo Marx, Don McLean, Barbra Streisand, operatic tenor/choir boy Peter Auty, Josh Groban, Liz Callaway, Karen Carpenter, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, Phillipa Soo, Sarah Brightman, Martina McBride, Joni Mitchell.....need I go further? On the other hand, consider other singers previously promoted in Other Artists who are contemporaries of Jackie and perceived as being in competition with her in terms of appeal/popularity. You said, in Suggestion Box: "I will continue to post new performers and update EXISTING ARTISTS" which would include but not limited to these singers previously promoted and "related to Jackie", Recall the title of the deleted topic, "Other Artists (other artists as they relate to Jackie)" Amira Willighagen Angelica Hale Angelina Jordan Lucy Thomas Giulia Falcone is a "17-year-old Italian artist who sings in Italian, French and English, plays piano and writes songs. She has won scholarships in Russia and London, and participates in The Voice France 2023". Being Italian doesn't exclude her from being compared with Jackie, an American who sings in Italian, French and English, plays piano and writes songs, also a 4-time guest performer on AGT. Amira is Dutch, Angelica is American, Angelina is Norwegian, and Lucy it British, Again, willyiam, you are misinterpreting my statements. I did NOT say or infer that you are "promoting Giulia Falcone OVER Jackie!"
|
|
|
Post by ghost on Apr 7, 2024 18:52:22 GMT -5
Something for "Other Artists", separate as it was before so as to avoid hostile comparisons and to make it easier to choose one's interests, is IMO not evil Personally, I can do without the "Other Artists" thread. I don't check the "Other Artists" out when someone posts something about them because I'm only interested in Jackie. If it was up to me, I wouldn't have the "Other Artist" thread. As long as I don't have to see posts about the other artists and as long as the poster is not trying to bash Jackie with another artist and as long as this site doesn't turn into a site about them (but if it does turn into a site about them than it should NOT be allowed) than it's ok.
|
|
|
Post by rlhamil on Apr 7, 2024 22:55:47 GMT -5
There are a few other young artists I follow, largely because Jackie convinced me a few can be worth following. :-) If it happens I can save time by reading a bit about them here, I won't mind. But I doubt I'd more than occasionally post here in a thread about them, and that only in exchange for info I got here.
|
|
|
Post by geb on Apr 8, 2024 3:08:38 GMT -5
As I noted in another thread, the Other Artists thread was started by this forum's founder, Rick Olsen, to stop people from directly mentioning other artists within Jackie specific threads.
Comparisons were occurring in Jackie specific threads, and Rick wanted to, in my opinion rightly so, stop this practice.
As others have noted, one does not have to read any thread they do not want to read.
If one has no interest in any of the Other Artists that may be posted about, then do not bother to read any of the posts.
This is a Jackie Evancho fan forum. Rick created Other Artists thread to get people to stop mentioning other artists within Jackie specific threads. In my opinion, his goal was successful as people made a concerted effort to NOT post any other artist names within Jackie specific threads and posted them within Other Artists.
With Lawrence's postings in Other Artists, Jackie's name is mentioned tons more times in the context of other artists, and is done so in a comparative way. To me, showing how other artists performed a song in comparison to how Jackie, or any other artist, may perform a song, is interesting. It takes zilch away from Jackie. It may help Jackie.
In fact, there is a popular fan created YouTube channel that only posts videos about Angelina Jordan. What he usually does is pick a song that she had covered, and then he shows snippets of many, many other artists, many times from around the world, including the original artist, in how they performed the song. At the end of the 10 to 15 minute videos, he then plays snippets of Angelina covering the song and then makes his comments. He is honest enough to say when he thinks that a particular artist did an excellent job, and has also said when he did not like how Angelina did the cover. In one of the videos about child artists, he mentions Jackie. No fear here. In other words, comparisons and honesty wins out with most people. Trying to hide reality is generally distasteful to people. And his channel is at over 24,400 subscribers, showing that others have zilch problems mentioning other artists and also comparing them with their artist of focus.
Are people here so afraid of how Jackie performs music that they will purposely block people from daring to even mention other artists, in a thread setup specifically for that purpose?
That is a sad state of affairs.
|
|
|
Post by rlhamil on Apr 8, 2024 6:21:38 GMT -5
Competition IMO is NOT a problem. There are doubtless those here wishing to promote Jackie, and I don't have a problem with that, but it should not depend on excluding others, esp, if kept in separate threads.
However, comparisons beyond videos of different artists doing the same song can IMO get nasty fast, and it's just as bad regardless of who it's nasty to. Sooner or later, it may be to Jackie's advantage to work with them, provided she doesn't have a reputation for having fans that are vicious to any other singer.
|
|
|
Post by lawrence on Apr 8, 2024 8:55:02 GMT -5
Are people here so afraid of how Jackie performs music that they will purposely block people from daring to even mention other artists, in a thread setup specifically for that purpose? That is a sad state of affairs. What compels you to make such a ludicrous statement? There are doubtless those here wishing to promote Jackie, and I don't have a problem with that, but it should not depend on excluding others, esp, if kept in separate threads. I've had no problem with postings about other artists in general. What I object to is the frequency with which Angelina Jordan appears in "Recent Posts", sometimes as often as twice or three times a week, and my having to continually by-pass yet another commentary that can't be ignored in order to get to what is current about Jackie. I have absolutely no interest in AJ. A solution to that would be welcomed.
|
|
|
Post by rlhamil on Apr 8, 2024 9:31:31 GMT -5
Are people here so afraid of how Jackie performs music that they will purposely block people from daring to even mention other artists, in a thread setup specifically for that purpose? That is a sad state of affairs. What compels you to make such a ludicrous statement? There are doubtless those here wishing to promote Jackie, and I don't have a problem with that, but it should not depend on excluding others, esp, if kept in separate threads. I've had no problem with postings about other artists in general. What I object to is the frequency with which Angelina Jordan appears in "Recent Posts", sometimes as often as twice or three times a week, and my having to continually by-pass yet another commentary that can't be ignored in order to get to what is current about Jackie. I have absolutely no interest in AJ. A solution to that would be welcomed. Unless you're quite physically challenged, scrolling and visually scanning should not be a hardship. Sounds to me like you're really saying there should be nothing here but Jackie, even separate, unless it clearly relates somehow to Jackie, because it's not invisible. Or else it's all about you and nothing you're not interested in should be here. Hmm, no. Whenever there's more than a very small number of people somewhere, some of what's said (or written) will be noise to some of them. It would take a system where each user could ignore all posts, all entries in listings, etc, that had certain authors, subjects, or keywords, so that you could have only what you wanted. Something like that existed once, even before the Web or the Internet: Usenet. Once hordes of regular folks got on there, not just academics and programmers and government scientists, it STILL became insanely noisy. Can't write enough rules to block all the spam. And if you try to write rules that only let you see what has certain keywords etc, you'll miss something, because they might not always be in a post that you could be interested in.
|
|
|
Post by geb on Apr 8, 2024 10:12:07 GMT -5
Are people here so afraid of how Jackie performs music that they will purposely block people from daring to even mention other artists, in a thread setup specifically for that purpose? That is a sad state of affairs. What compels you to make such a ludicrous statement? There are doubtless those here wishing to promote Jackie, and I don't have a problem with that, but it should not depend on excluding others, esp, if kept in separate threads. I've had no problem with postings about other artists in general. What I object to is the frequency with which Angelina Jordan appears in "Recent Posts", sometimes as often as twice or three times a week, and my having to continually by-pass yet another commentary that can't be ignored in order to get to what is current about Jackie. I have absolutely no interest in AJ. A solution to that would be welcomed. You just answered your own question by indicating you want postings for another artist in what will be a thread dedicated to Other Artists effectively blocked/restricted from being made because you do not like that postings are being made too often to your liking, such as on occasion at a few times a week. Must have driven you crazy when Emily Bear was on tour with Beyoncé and postings were occurring almost daily for the multiple weeks of the tour? I had said before, that when something significant is happening for an artist, such as the tour for Emily or several concerts in Vegas for Angelina, then postings would occur more frequently as more is happening due to that event. When nothing is happening for an artist, postings do not happen for that artist, sometimes for weeks or months, even years, as happened with Andrea Bocelli, until he recently released a duet with his 11-year old daughter Virginia called Dare To Be for the film Cabrini for which his daughter had a minor part in her first major film. With Jackie also in her first major film at the age of 11, it seemed like a nice duality to post that song, years after the last Bocelli posting had been made. I never have to by-pass anything. I just go to the threads that I am interested in. If I am not interested in something I ignore it or mark it as read. As a side note, literally from 2010 AGT forward Jackie has been compared to others and has been viciously attacked by some people that got offended because Jackie was being called an Opera singer. Jackie never called herself one, and even with incessantly saying she was a classical crossover artist and not an Opera singer, she was tagged the latter, even to this day. And I remember some Jackie fans viciously attacking other potential competing artists of Jackie, and viciously attacking posters that would dare say anything that they thought was negative. These actions, in my opinion, were wrong. A few bad apples ruined it for the many. However, I have seen similar actions taken against other artists by "trolls" who appear to get their jollies putting other people down. I have seen multiple music reactors viciously attacked because they gave their honest opinion about a performance that was considered negative by some nutso fans who just could never believe that their favorite artist did anything bad. The smart music reactors just delete and ignore the bad apples and let everyone know that this will happen when they are viciously attacked. It comes with the territory of being a public personality, but in some ways it speaks of the lack of servility that exists in today's society.
|
|
|
Post by lawrence on Apr 8, 2024 10:41:37 GMT -5
What compels you to make such a ludicrous statement?I've had no problem with postings about other artists in general. What I object to is the frequency with which Angelina Jordan appears in "Recent Posts", sometimes as often as twice or three times a week, and my having to continually by-pass yet another commentary that can't be ignored in order to get to what is current about Jackie. I have absolutely no interest in AJ. A solution to that would be welcomed. Unless you're quite physically challenged, scrolling and visually scanning should not be a hardship. Sounds to me like you're really saying there should be nothing here but Jackie, even separate, unless it clearly relates somehow to Jackie, because it's not invisible. Or else it's all about you and nothing you're not interested in should be here. Hmm, no. Whenever there's more than a very small number of people somewhere, some of what's said (or written) will be noise to some of them. It would take a system where each user could ignore all posts, all entries in listings, etc, that had certain authors, subjects, or keywords, so that you could have only what you wanted. Something like that existed once, even before the Web or the Internet: Usenet. Once hordes of regular folks got on there, not just academics and programmers and government scientists, it STILL became insanely noisy. Can't write enough rules to block all the spam. And if you try to write rules that only let you see what has certain keywords etc, you'll miss something, because they might not always be in a post that you could be interested in. Not true. I said "I've had no problem with postings about other artists in general", and I've had no problem with "Other Artists" as it was initially intended to be used. I appreciated many of the artists for which threads had been created, in as much they were not perceived to be competitors to Jackie. My objection is specific: This is a Jackie Evancho fan forum being used to continually promote Angelina Jordan who is perceived by the public and fans alike to be a competitor with regard to appeal and popularity. Rickallanolsen posted the comment on Jackie's Smoking Gun video, "Jackie's competition has never been promoted on my forum". I quoted that statement in shoutbox with a response, "Apparently Other Artists doesn't exist." Admin replied, "I have deleted Other Artists. I forgot it was there." That is the crux of this on-going debate about whether or not "Other Artists" should exist. Admin has determined that it will not, because it has been used to promote "Jackie's competitors", others having been Amira Willighagen, Angelica Hale and Lucy Thomas.... all professional singers which, btw, does not include Emily Bear. Advocates for "Other Artists" will undoubtedly win the current poll, and therefore the forum will continue to be used to promote perceived "competitors" either past or future one way or another. I question the ethics of that, and object as a fan of the artist to which this forum is dedicated....Jackie Evancho. It is not a platform for promoting Jackie's competitors, regardless of any excuse to justify it. I suggest that the Amazon forum will welcome those who persist in promoting such artists/singers.
|
|
|
Post by ursus on Apr 8, 2024 13:02:18 GMT -5
Must have driven you crazy when Emily Bear was on tour with Beyoncé and postings were occurring almost daily for the multiple weeks of the tour? That is not true. Neither I nor anyone else posted that often, probably no more than twice a month.
|
|