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Post by rlhamil on Apr 8, 2024 15:56:55 GMT -5
Angelina Jordan sings with a pseudo-jazz pronunciation and sound whether or not that really fits what she’s singing. It works where it fits, but not for everything. I like some of her songs where it fits, but for me that sound gets old fast with anything else.
That does NOT compete with someone who can sing classical, show tunes, pop, and country so they all sound different. (Maybe it did when Jackie had her own everything sounds the same problem, but those days are long gone.) At least not in the minds of most people with working ears I think, give or take anyone that imagines much benefit from trying to promote AJ here.
So it may be a nuisance to you, but if it is trying to promote the “competition” here, I doubt it’s effective.
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Post by lawrence on Apr 8, 2024 18:46:08 GMT -5
Angelina Jordan sings with a pseudo-jazz pronunciation and sound whether or not that really fits what she’s singing. It works where it fits, but not for everything. I like some of her songs where it fits, but for me that sound gets old fast with anything else. That does NOT compete with someone who can sing classical, show tunes, pop, and country so they all sound different. (Maybe it did when Jackie had her own everything sounds the same problem, but those days are long gone.) At least not in the minds of most people with working ears I think, give or take anyone that imagines much benefit from trying to promote AJ here. So it may be a nuisance to you, but if it is trying to promote the “competition” here, I doubt it’s effective. I appreciate your perspective. However, I am not referring to her vocal style or genre as being competitive. Of course she cannot compete with Jackie's natural vocal versatility and signature sound described as exceptionally "pure", which lends itself to her different vocal styles. For that matter, neither can Amira Willighagen, Angelica Hale, or Lucy Thomas, who are regarded as competitors. AJ has a huge fan base and audience that loves her sound. Moreover, she has a team who works diligently at creating a successful marketing strategy compared with the failings of Jackie team, as we are repeatedly reminded. Thus she is widely popular and apparently more popular than Jackie at present. And, there are countless reaction videos about AJ compared with the relatively few about Jackie. As I said, "...Angelina Jordan, who is perceived by the public and fans alike to be a competitor with regard to APPEAL and POPULARITY. Whether or not one imagines it to be of benefit to promote her on this forum is irrelevant. It's being done. That is the point. What annoys me, as I've said, is the frequency with which "other artists" are being promoted on this forum. Geb alone has posted 8 pages of updates, videos, promos and commentary on the AJ thread, and done so regularly, as often as twice a week at times. That, to me, constitutes a determined agenda. Even before this debate began, willyiam posted videos of Giulia Falcone and Emma Kok under Subjects of Interest to Forum Members, and has said, "Until Admin updates the Forum Rules to expressly limit what can be posted about Other Artists, I will continue to post new performers and update existing artists....". Such may be acceptable to other members and, by the looks of the poll results at present, it will continue. My determination of what is acceptable to me awaits a word from Admin.
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Post by geb on Apr 9, 2024 0:03:48 GMT -5
Must have driven you crazy when Emily Bear was on tour with Beyoncé and postings were occurring almost daily for the multiple weeks of the tour? That is not true. Neither I nor anyone else posted that often, probably no more than twice a month. Without Other Artists still around, it can not be shown that during the Beyoncé tour more than two postings occurred during the month or so that the tour lasted.
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Post by rlhamil on Apr 9, 2024 0:59:21 GMT -5
Angelina Jordan sings with a pseudo-jazz pronunciation and sound whether or not that really fits what she’s singing. It works where it fits, but not for everything. I like some of her songs where it fits, but for me that sound gets old fast with anything else. That does NOT compete with someone who can sing classical, show tunes, pop, and country so they all sound different. (Maybe it did when Jackie had her own everything sounds the same problem, but those days are long gone.) At least not in the minds of most people with working ears I think, give or take anyone that imagines much benefit from trying to promote AJ here. So it may be a nuisance to you, but if it is trying to promote the “competition” here, I doubt it’s effective. I appreciate your perspective. However, I am not referring to her vocal style or genre as being competitive. Of course she cannot compete with Jackie's natural vocal versatility and signature sound described as exceptionally "pure", which lends itself to her different vocal styles. For that matter, neither can Amira Willighagen, Angelica Hale, or Lucy Thomas, who are regarded as competitors. I think my description was more careful than that. I think saying who is or isn't competitive in such a manner is very close to rude, and risks doing more damage than helping. Other artists don't need to take cr@p from us, and their fans won't be encouraged to also become Jackie fans if we're rude. Let me be blunt: though I wish Jackie the best and have attended quite a few concerts, bought multiple copies of CDs, etc, it's on her to compete, not on us to provide a competition-free zone. I grant that consistent promotion of other artists here might be a bit much, but what is or isn't promotion is rather subjective, unless you have solid evidence that it's an organized effort. Very early, Jackie was promoted by Lisa on another artist's site. Not sure, but I don't think there were many complaints there about that. (I'm not displeased that you did NOT mention a couple of other young artists with very good voices (one sadly recently deceased)...that I would never have heard about except for following Jackie and reading posts here and elsewhere.)
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Post by geb on Apr 9, 2024 1:29:17 GMT -5
Lawrence, by my count we have a total of EIGHT people who so far bothered to vote on the Other Artists thread.
As I said, this forum is microscopic, and even more so because it is a login required forum to do much of anything.
As I had pointed out, and as you just related, Jackie's team in the past has been fairly crappy while Angelina's team has been far more diligent in the goal of building up a fanbase that appears to be far bigger than Jackie's present fanbase, and done so in four years less time.
I am not privy to what happened behind the scenes with Jackie, but from afar, her team appeared to be far less fan-friendly than Angelina's team. As an example, Jackie's behind the scenes life was pretty much a black box except for the one season of Growing Up Evancho on cable TV when Jackie was 17-years old. This show did not have great ratings and thus ended up being cancelled although one can still watch it on Apple TV or if one has a Prime Video subscription (which I happen to have).
On the other hand, Angelina's grandmother, mother, and sometimes uncle, posted every kind of cell phone video one can imagine since Angelina was 18 months old across multiple social media channels. There are hundreds, if not thousands of videos showing Angelina at a multitude of ages, that continue to this day. The effect is to almost make Angelina seem like a member of one's family.
And on top of these growing up videos we have hundreds upon hundreds of videos of Angelina performing at private functions, concerts, in make-shift home setups, singing in the car, singing behind-the-scenes, singing walking down the street, and you name it and a video of Angelina singing has probably been made and published somewhere (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok).
Angelina's team has approved people to be allowed to record and publish events. For example, YouTuber Boris Palenovski (89+K subscribers) met the family at a concert in Norway when Angelina was very young. They gave him permission to record and publish her performances. They regularly converse via emails. And the family even gave him some cell phone footage of Angelina performing in a private party for Hollywood people that included Rami Malek, who played Freddie Mercury in the Bohemian Rhapsody movie. Angelina sung her version of the song Bohemian Rhapsody (originally sung on 2020 AGT The Champions that got her a Golden Buzzer. In one YouTube posting alone this performance has over 100 million views, making it one of the most viewed talent show videos of all time) at this private event. Another video from this private party shows Angelina talking with Rami.
As a result of this policy of publishing virtually everything one can think of, whether good or bad, Angelina has had over 2,000 music reactors of her performance videos. Some of these reactors have millions of subscribers. The exposure has been dramatic with over 1.8 billion views on YouTube, over 4 billion views on Facebook, and hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of views on Instagram and TikTok.
Now we have Jackie's team in contrast who had a tight policy of what would be published, got videos with millions of views pulled down, had an ultra strict policy of virtually no concert videos allowed to be recorded, much less published.
One policy of openness results in billions of views and millions of fans worldwide with an increasing fanbase. The other policy of tight control leads to hundreds of millions of views and a shrinking fanbase.
I do not know what people here think, but to me, it is no contest as to who had the better promotional strategy during the under 20 career years.
And here we have Jackie having to work her little tail off building back her fanbase. It will take years. In many ways, switching to the Independent Alt Rock / Adult Contemporary genre is good. Besides being what Jackie now feels comfortable doing, and she has written some good songs, it gives Jackie a chance to finally get rid of that Opera singer label she has been stuck with since 2010 AGT. Unfortunately it will always be around, but hopefully it can be pushed to way back in the minds of many people, and enough people who had never heard of Jackie will now think of her as an Independent Alt Rock / Adult Contemporary artist and classical crossover artist will be a distant memory.
Yes, I know lots of people fell in love with Jackie's classical crossover voice (myself included) that at least one analysis showed was about as perfect a waveform as one could physically make. And it probably is considered heresy to suggest that it is good that Jackie is pushing her classical crossover music to the background, at this point in time. It does not mean that once Jackie gets her fanbase back growing in the right direction, she will never do another classical crossover song. Who knows, Jackie may write a song that is best performed in a classical crossover style.
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Post by Willyiam on Apr 9, 2024 10:06:24 GMT -5
I appreciate your perspective. However, I am not referring to her vocal style or genre as being competitive. Of course she cannot compete with Jackie's natural vocal versatility and signature sound described as exceptionally "pure", which lends itself to her different vocal styles. For that matter, neither can Amira Willighagen, Angelica Hale, or Lucy Thomas, who are regarded as competitors. I think my description was more careful than that. I think saying who is or isn't competitive in such a manner is very close to rude, and risks doing more damage than helping. Other artists don't need to take cr@p from us, and their fans won't be encouraged to also become Jackie fans if we're rude. Let me be blunt: though I wish Jackie the best and have attended quite a few concerts, bought multiple copies of CDs, etc, it's on her to compete, not on us to provide a competition-free zone. I grant that consistent promotion of other artists here might be a bit much, but what is or isn't promotion is rather subjective, unless you have solid evidence that it's an organized effort. Very early, Jackie was promoted by Lisa on another artist's site. Not sure, but I don't think there were many complaints there about that. (I'm not displeased that you did NOT mention a couple of other young artists with very good voices (one sadly recently deceased)...that I would never have heard about except for following Jackie and reading posts here and elsewhere.) The deceased artist was Soprano Patricia Burda Janeckova, who passed at the age of 26 from cancer!! She was one of the many performers, posted in Other Artists, that, had the thread survived, would have paid tribute to Patricia's talent! Her "Dolls Aria" is a classic: We will never see a new, recent video of Patricia again, and the deletion of 'Other Artists' removed her tribute from this forum!!
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Post by ursus on Apr 9, 2024 11:34:18 GMT -5
That is not true. Neither I nor anyone else posted that often, probably no more than twice a month. Without Other Artists still around, it can not be shown that during the Beyoncé tour more than two postings occurred during the month or so that the tour lasted. True that it can't be shown how many posts there were, but it can be shown that the first concert of the tour was on 5/10/23 and the last on 10/1/23. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_World_Tour
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Post by hiturbine on Apr 10, 2024 19:32:57 GMT -5
I do not understand the OTT reaction by some members for reason of this Jackie Evancho fan forum having a folder dedicated to "Other Artists."
This forum has FOURTEEN folders dedicated to Jackie, SIX for Administrative / Technical matters, ONE for "Subjects of Interests," - and ONE for "Other Artists."
In that light, why is this content an issue? IMO, continuing with this argument is the epitome of "making a mountain over a mole hill." I would suggest that any Jackie fan who has gotten upset over such a trivial matter reconsider their priorities - because the only "fruit" I see coming from this contention is the unnecessary provocation of our members, done simply for the sake of arguing.
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Post by msims on Apr 11, 2024 0:50:02 GMT -5
I voted no.
First of all whoever raised the issue (I havent been following closely), I think its lawrence. He did the right thing. If the posts about other artists are out numbering the posts about Jackie, then he has a valid argument.
It depends on the motivation of the poster or posters, id want to know: why do they want to discuss someone else?
I know that Jackie's success lead to alot of others having opportunities they wouldnt have had if Jackie didnt have her successes so I know it would be impossible to not have a forum without other names being brought up. Typically speaking Jackie does not promote other people on her social media but she has followed some of the people mentioned. Typically speaking though Jackie fans only want to listen to Jackie and you don't get to decide if its fine or not, its up to each individual what they want to listen to and no one else gets to control their decisions.
Typically those who post about other singers tend to reference their numbers or how they are good at marketing themselves, that is passive aggressive and not a good tactic in any forum. Social Media and streaming is far from the most important thing it has helped artists like Jackie though. Social Media can be very toxic and im sure it had something to do with her health issues. If you can turn those numbers into a charting success, great but again I don't think most would care. Jackie fans typically don't care about whats popular or ever have, they just want to hear and see her perform live.
I found that Isabeau Levito clip and I mentioned it in a youtube comment somehow Jackie picked it up and posted it. I find her to be a brilliant skater but thats irregular. I also do not think its in good taste to push on people what all I like and listen to as well. You would hardly find me posting about others for years because its not about me, forums are about the artist. But I also know Rick left the amazon because of the amount of posts about other talents. I just don't see the point in talking about someone who has no connection to Jackie, but not everyone has malicious intent to wreak havoc on a forum like the posters on amazon. Still it doesnt really do any harm to post in a sub thread, still I think one should make their own free proboards for them instead or promote on social media. But nobody is telling you what you should or shouldnt post, except the admin period. Its fine to disagree.
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Post by rlhamil on Apr 13, 2024 0:23:58 GMT -5
Advocates for "Other Artists" will undoubtedly win the current poll, and therefore the forum will continue to be used to promote perceived "competitors" either past or future one way or another. I question the ethics of that, and object as a fan of the artist to which this forum is dedicated....Jackie Evancho. It is not a platform for promoting Jackie's competitors, regardless of any excuse to justify it. I suggest that the Amazon forum will welcome those who persist in promoting such artists/singers. Today's competitor could be last year's (or next year's) collaborator. A fan forum is not a marketing tool per se, although it certainly shouldn't be hostile to the one it's supposed to be about. As far as salesmanship goes, any aggressive talking position, whether in favor of someone or against them, is likely to do far more harm than any possible loss of business due to a few people buying/streaming someone else rather than Jackie (and streaming isn't competition with a service anyway, you're not paying per song so you can have both).
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