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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 13:59:11 GMT -5
First, if you find typos, you can keep them. Secondly . I know why Jackie is doing the album, I just don't know what it will bring to her career. Third, Jackie sings the first two times "still looks somehow" and not "still somehow" like in the original and at the end. Interesting variant that I like, but others may hear a mistake in it. Fourth. In my opinion, the Coda version is more simply structured and therefore easier to listen to than Jackie's version. Jackie's version is more complicated, has breaks and a jazzy approach. I love something like that. The new album won't draw in new fans to any significant degree...it caters to her older audience who are already familiar with Joni Mitchell. It doesn't offer any "wow" factor, or reinvent the song enough to get anyone's attention. It's just yet another pretty voice, one of many, singing an old classic. While Jackie fans like myself are enjoying new material from her, I don't see changing the landscape or trajectory of her career. What do I think of Jackie singing River and Both Sides Now? It's nice, it's pretty, it's Jackie, and unfortunately it just gets drowned out in a sea of pretty voices singing classics like these for the hundredth time. Typical nonsense that is constantly told in another forum. Jackie's voice is not her talent, a voice is just a singer's instrument. Jackie's talent is her understanding of music, recognizing the inner structure of a song and then working out her own interpretation. If Herr Esel would bother to delve a little deeper into Jackie's interpretation, he would also recognize the difference to other covers. Even if Jackie were to sing his own songs, that wouldn't guarantee success, just like her singing any original songs by songwriters. Michael Bubble's most successful song on Spotify is "Feeling Good" by Nina Simone. The next one is "Sway" which Dean Martin has already sung. You can definitely have a career without original songs. And I prefer a good cover to the junk that dominates the charts.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 14:09:00 GMT -5
The new album won't draw in new fans to any significant degree...it caters to her older audience who are already familiar with Joni Mitchell. It doesn't offer any "wow" factor, or reinvent the song enough to get anyone's attention. It's just yet another pretty voice, one of many, singing an old classic. While Jackie fans like myself are enjoying new material from her, I don't see changing the landscape or trajectory of her career. What do I think of Jackie singing River and Both Sides Now? It's nice, it's pretty, it's Jackie, and unfortunately it just gets drowned out in a sea of pretty voices singing classics like these for the hundredth time. Typical nonsense that is constantly told in another forum. Jackie's voice is not her talent, a voice is just a singer's instrument. Jackie's talent is her understanding of music, recognizing the inner structure of a song and then working out her own interpretation. If Herr Esel would bother to delve a little deeper into Jackie's interpretation, he would also recognize the difference to other covers. Even if Jackie were to sing his own songs, that wouldn't guarantee success, just like her singing any original songs by songwriters. Michael Bubble's most successful song on Spotify is "Feeling Good" by Nina Simone. The next one is "Sway" which Dean Martin has already sung. You can definitely have a career without original songs. And I prefer a good cover to the junk that dominates the charts. I agree that writing your own songs doesn't guarantee success, obviously it doesn't. Just saying this song is old and has been covered endless times by a stream of pretty voices over the decades. Jackie's version is pretty as usual, but it will simply get lost in a giant sea of pretty voices in a giant sea of covers. It's not unique enough to stand out in the crowd and suddenly draw in a bunch of new Jackie fans. I think that's pretty evident.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 15:01:43 GMT -5
Typical nonsense that is constantly told in another forum. Jackie's voice is not her talent, a voice is just a singer's instrument. Jackie's talent is her understanding of music, recognizing the inner structure of a song and then working out her own interpretation. If Herr Esel would bother to delve a little deeper into Jackie's interpretation, he would also recognize the difference to other covers. Even if Jackie were to sing his own songs, that wouldn't guarantee success, just like her singing any original songs by songwriters. Michael Bubble's most successful song on Spotify is "Feeling Good" by Nina Simone. The next one is "Sway" which Dean Martin has already sung. You can definitely have a career without original songs. And I prefer a good cover to the junk that dominates the charts. I agree that writing your own songs doesn't guarantee success, obviously it doesn't. Just saying this song is old and has been covered endless times by a stream of pretty voices over the decades. Jackie's version is pretty as usual, but it will simply get lost in a giant sea of pretty voices in a giant sea of covers. It's not unique enough to stand out in the crowd and suddenly draw in a bunch of new Jackie fans. I think that's pretty evident. How about if you just say here what jackie should sing to have great success or to attract attention. how should jackie create a wow.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 15:54:18 GMT -5
I agree that writing your own songs doesn't guarantee success, obviously it doesn't. Just saying this song is old and has been covered endless times by a stream of pretty voices over the decades. Jackie's version is pretty as usual, but it will simply get lost in a giant sea of pretty voices in a giant sea of covers. It's not unique enough to stand out in the crowd and suddenly draw in a bunch of new Jackie fans. I think that's pretty evident. How about if you just say here what jackie should sing to have great success or to attract attention. how should jackie create a wow. I don't think there is anything she can likely do. CC was what she sang best, and as a kid it wowed people (and still does amongst her fans). I don't see a realistic scenario where she comes out with some original material that is edgy enough or unique enough to give her a substantial second career peak that rivals her first one. It's extremely hard to re-invent yourself in the singing world to begin with, especially if you want to do it in another genre long after your career peaked the first time and most people no longer know who you are. Jackie's an introverted, socially awkward, conservative girl who is struggling with mental disorders. She's not edgy, her voice doesn't really stand out in a crowd outside of cc, she doesn't have great, original music/songs, and she's largely unknown today. Jackie is who she is and she should make no apologies for it. She still has a little fame left, and can still pull in hundreds of people for concerts and make a living at it. Her name even gets a mention in the national spotlight every once and a while. That's great. She has had an awesome career...one that many singers would kill for. It's just that her's peaked early, that's all - and that was do largely to the fact that she was that "little cute kid with the huge voice" Now, I personally wouldn't mind her singing more jazz/blues type music...I think she does that very well, and that could attract some people to her who are interested in that type of music. It won't make her a pop superstar of course, but that's just not going to happen in any event.
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Post by msims on May 7, 2022 18:51:29 GMT -5
Its the same cooler troll pattern for years that started around or after the success of DWM and its ramping up because Jackie is releasing new music. They attempt to convince others Jackie has no career because of covid (although they dont like to cite covid) and her body image issues, which is a lie. Its negativity based that her career was/is in jeopardy, then of course she ends up doing consecutive PBS appearances. Then the Inauguration where she ends up doing every morning talk show, then AGT Champions, China's Got Talent, and finally the Masked Singer which was a breakthrough with her. CC is about branching out into pop and other genres all in the mainstream. She has over 3 million units sold and is marketing/promoting her new album on social media and at her concerts as well and they cant stand that.
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Post by msims on May 7, 2022 18:53:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 20:20:28 GMT -5
Its the same cooler troll pattern for years that started around or after the success of DWM and its ramping up because Jackie is releasing new music. They attempt to convince others Jackie has no career because of covid (although they dont like to cite covid) and her body image issues, which is a lie. Its negativity based that her career was/is in jeopardy, then of course she ends up doing consecutive PBS appearances. Then the Inauguration where she ends up doing every morning talk show, then AGT Champions, China's Got Talent, and finally the Masked Singer which was a breakthrough with her. CC is about branching out into pop and other genres all in the mainstream. She has over 3 million units sold and is marketing/promoting her new album on social media and at her concerts as well and they cant stand that. What nonsense...lol. If you had been on board John Denver's plane with him. John, "Hmm, are we going down?" SIMS, "Oh...no, everything is just great!" John, "Are you sure? I thought we were higher earlier in the flight. All the flight indicators indicate as much" SIMS, "No John...nothing has changed. We are just as high as before. Stop trying to manipulate my perception." ROFL
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 10:32:16 GMT -5
First, her name is Joni Mitchell, not Motchell!! Second, Jackie kinda/sorta gave us the reason she selected Joni's work for her next album: "She inspires me as an artist and I hope I do justice to her incredible body of work".
Third, based on what we have learned about the reasons for Jackie's disappearance, I believe the lyrics of Joni's songs are what drew Jackie to Joni's music!
Both Sides Now lyrics:
Rows and flows of angel hair And ice cream castles in the air And feather canyons everywhere I've looked at clouds that way But now they only block the sun They rain and snow on everyone So many things I would have done But clouds got in my way I've looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down and still somehow It's cloud illusions I recall I really don't know clouds at all Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels The dizzy dancing way that you feel As every fairy tale comes real I've looked at love that way But now it's just another show You leave 'em laughing when you go And if you care, don't let them know Don't give yourself away I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take and still somehow It's love's illusions that I recall I really don't know love Really don't know love at all Tears and fears and feeling proud To say, "I love you" right out loud Dreams and schemes and circus crowds I've looked at life that way But now old friends are acting strange They shake their heads and say I've changed Well something's lost, but something's gained In living every day I've looked at life from both sides now From win and lose and still somehow It's life's illusions I recall I really don't know life at all It's life's illusions that I recall I really don't know life I really don't know life at all
Fourth, you can't honestly believe "Jackie's version pales behind the version from "CODA (Child of Deaf Adults) "!!
Here is Emilia Jones - Both Sides Now
Jackie's version PALES behind this? ?? I don't think so!
First, if you find typos, you can keep them. Secondly . I know why Jackie is doing the album, I just don't know what it will bring to her career. Third, Jackie sings the first two times "still looks somehow" and not "still somehow" like in the original and at the end. Interesting variant that I like, but others may hear a mistake in it. Fourth. In my opinion, the Coda version is more simply structured and therefore easier to listen to than Jackie's version. Jackie's version is more complicated, has breaks and a jazzy approach. I love something like that. Sorry but Jackie sings "still loves somehow" or "still lives somehow" or both, that makes perfect sense. Jackie definitely gave some thought to the interpretation of this song.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 6, 2022 13:07:01 GMT -5
Jackie is again doing what has inspired her, what is meaningful to her, exactly what making music is about and what genuine artists do. She did it with The Debut as her FIRST "authentically me album to date", inspired by contemporary Broadway. Obviously she is not reaching for "super-stardom" with this album, or with the next, most likely. And, I don't think she is desperate to increase her net worth beyond the millions she has earned, or to gain hoards of new young fans. She became an independent artist because, as she said, she won't be told what to sing or how to sing it, and wants to express her creativity. She does that in her own inimitable way of making every song her own, capturing it's emotional essence with respect for the intention of the writer, whether its Puccini or Joni Mitchell. It's the ethos of the song that touches us with Jackie's interpretation in any genre, from any era. Apparently Fred (her producer for this album) has given her the creative freedom she demands in her endeavor toward realizing whatever vision she has for herself. It's her show, not his. We can appreciate what she brings to us from her heart and support her by buying her music, attending her concerts when possible, and promoting her as an artist in whatever capacity we can. Let's leave concerns about the future of her career to Jackie.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2022 13:54:45 GMT -5
Jackie is again doing what has inspired her, what is meaningful to her, exactly what making music is about and what genuine artists do. She did it with The Debut as her FIRST "authentically me album to date", inspired by contemporary Broadway. Obviously she is not reaching for "super-stardom" with this album, or with the next, most likely. And, I don't think she is desperate to increase her net worth beyond the millions she has earned, or to gain hoards of new young fans. She became an independent artist because, as she said, she won't be told what to sing or how to sing it, and wants to express her creativity. She does that in her own inimitable way of making every song her own, capturing it's emotional essence with respect for the intention of the writer, whether its Puccini or Joni Mitchell. It's the ethos of the song that touches us with Jackie's interpretation in any genre, from any era. Apparently Fred (her producer for this album) has given her the creative freedom she demands in her endeavor toward realizing whatever vision she has for herself. It's her show, not his. We can appreciate what she brings to us from her heart and support her by buying her music, attending her concerts when possible, and promoting her as an artist in whatever capacity we can. Let's leave concerns about the future of her career to Jackie. I think you are likely very wrong about Fred giving her creative freedom. I listened to him in an interview a couple months ago and he was talking about how he refuses to produce original artist's music unless he not only thinks that it is good but it must be professionally composed/written. He sounded highly structured and restrictive of the kind of music he will produce. Jackie's mom's #1 complaint in recent years is that labels won't nurture young talent or let them perform original songs. I highly doubt it was Jackie's idea to sing a Joni Mitchell album...I actually doubt she even knew who Joni Mitchell is, or if she did, she barely did. I think her past and current labels have been highly restrictive about what she can sing on the albums they produce. And Jackie is very naive, malleable and eager to please...according to her own mom, so I doubt she puts up much of a fight to sing what she wants to sing. I highly suspect Joni Mitchell songs were strongly "suggested" to Jackie by her label. And any talk of "becoming an independent artist for creative freedom" in this case is code for "No major label will sign me". Sorry, your opinion isn't based on any evidence, but merely your desire to believe what you say is true. That's fantasy land my friend.
Now, does that mean she doesn't like any Joni Mitchell songs or can't relate to any of it? No, I'm sure she does and can. But that's just called making the best of what you have to work with.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 6, 2022 16:48:28 GMT -5
Jackie is again doing what has inspired her, what is meaningful to her, exactly what making music is about and what genuine artists do. She did it with The Debut as her FIRST "authentically me album to date", inspired by contemporary Broadway. Obviously she is not reaching for "super-stardom" with this album, or with the next, most likely. And, I don't think she is desperate to increase her net worth beyond the millions she has earned, or to gain hoards of new young fans. She became an independent artist because, as she said, she won't be told what to sing or how to sing it, and wants to express her creativity. She does that in her own inimitable way of making every song her own, capturing it's emotional essence with respect for the intention of the writer, whether its Puccini or Joni Mitchell. It's the ethos of the song that touches us with Jackie's interpretation in any genre, from any era. Apparently Fred (her producer for this album) has given her the creative freedom she demands in her endeavor toward realizing whatever vision she has for herself. It's her show, not his. We can appreciate what she brings to us from her heart and support her by buying her music, attending her concerts when possible, and promoting her as an artist in whatever capacity we can. Let's leave concerns about the future of her career to Jackie. I think you are likely very wrong about Fred giving her creative freedom. I listened to him in an interview a couple months ago and he was talking about how he refuses to produce original artist's music unless he not only thinks that it is good but it must be professionally composed/written. He sounded highly structured and restrictive of the kind of music he will produce. Jackie's mom's #1 complaint in recent years is that labels won't nurture young talent or let them perform original songs. I highly doubt it was Jackie's idea to sing a Joni Mitchell album...I actually doubt she even knew who Joni Mitchell is, or if she did, she barely did. I think her past and current labels have been highly restrictive about what she can sing on the albums they produce. And Jackie is very naive, malleable and eager to please...according to her own mom, so I doubt she puts up much of a fight to sing what she wants to sing. I highly suspect Joni Mitchell songs were strongly "suggested" to Jackie by her label. And any talk of "becoming an independent artist for creative freedom" in this case is code for "No major label will sign me". Sorry, your opinion isn't based on any evidence, but merely your desire to believe what you say is true. That's fantasy land my friend.
Now, does that mean she doesn't like any Joni Mitchell songs or can't relate to any of it? No, I'm sure she does and can. But that's just called making the best of what you have to work with. "I think you are likely very wrong about Fred giving her creative freedom." That at least affords me some benefit of the doubt. "I highly doubt it was Jackie's idea to sing a Joni Mitchell album..." That's not evidence, but conjecture. "I actually doubt she even knew who Joni Mitchell is..." That's not evidence either. "I highly suspect Joni Mitchell songs were strongly "suggested" to Jackie by her label." That's not evidence, but supposition. "That's fantasy land my friend." Why the compulsion to ridicule? My observations and opinions are no less valid than yours, based upon what I know Jackie has said with regard to her music and what she wants. By "creative freedom", I'm referring to her singing these Mitchell songs the way she wants, as she had with those on The Debut, exercising her authority as one in command of her own career to make decisions about how they should sound according her interpretation of them, and in this case, not be dictated to by Fred or anyone else. Let's give her some credit as an adult who knows what SHE wants. Perhaps you don't think she deserves it, but I do. We don't actually know, at least I don't know how she and Fred got together, but I don't presume she sought him out to be manipulated into doing something she would have no say about. She is the artist and it's her album.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2022 17:42:02 GMT -5
I think you are likely very wrong about Fred giving her creative freedom. I listened to him in an interview a couple months ago and he was talking about how he refuses to produce original artist's music unless he not only thinks that it is good but it must be professionally composed/written. He sounded highly structured and restrictive of the kind of music he will produce. Jackie's mom's #1 complaint in recent years is that labels won't nurture young talent or let them perform original songs. I highly doubt it was Jackie's idea to sing a Joni Mitchell album...I actually doubt she even knew who Joni Mitchell is, or if she did, she barely did. I think her past and current labels have been highly restrictive about what she can sing on the albums they produce. And Jackie is very naive, malleable and eager to please...according to her own mom, so I doubt she puts up much of a fight to sing what she wants to sing. I highly suspect Joni Mitchell songs were strongly "suggested" to Jackie by her label. And any talk of "becoming an independent artist for creative freedom" in this case is code for "No major label will sign me". Sorry, your opinion isn't based on any evidence, but merely your desire to believe what you say is true. That's fantasy land my friend.
Now, does that mean she doesn't like any Joni Mitchell songs or can't relate to any of it? No, I'm sure she does and can. But that's just called making the best of what you have to work with. "I think you are likely very wrong about Fred giving her creative freedom." That at least affords me some benefit of the doubt. "I highly doubt it was Jackie's idea to sing a Joni Mitchell album..." That's not evidence, but conjecture. "I actually doubt she even knew who Joni Mitchell is..." That's not evidence either. "I highly suspect Joni Mitchell songs were strongly "suggested" to Jackie by her label." That's not evidence, but supposition. "That's fantasy land my friend." Why the compulsion to ridicule? My observations and opinions are no less valid than yours, based upon what I know Jackie has said with regard to her music and what she wants. By "creative freedom", I'm referring to her singing these Mitchell songs the way she wants, as she had with those on The Debut, exercising her authority as one in command of her own career to make decisions about how they should sound according her interpretation of them, and in this case, not be dictated to by Fred or anyone else. Let's give her some credit as an adult who knows what SHE wants. Perhaps you don't think she deserves it, but I do. We don't actually know, at least I don't know how she and Fred got together, but I don't presume she sought him out to be manipulated into doing something she would have no say about. She is the artist and it's her album. Oh, my suppositions are based on what Fred and Jackie's mom have said - they are logical conclusions as such. Yours are based on, well, what you wish to be the case I suppose. If creative freedom to you is, the label tells you to sing Joni Mitchell songs, and then you get to pick which Joni Mitchell songs...that's mightly restrictive creative freedom. lol Not sure if the interpretation of the songs are Jackie's doing, the labels, or the musicians...probably a combination. Jackie's own mom, who is Jackie's biggest supporter, has called her malleable, naive, and eager to please on her FB...she would know far far better than you. We all know Jackie's statements in the past of her desire to do all kinds of big things...most of which never go anywhere. Your issue is you just want to ignore the facts on the ground and put such a positive spin on everything Jackie that it eventually starts to bear little resemblance to reality. She is the artist and it is her album, but she is also restricted by the demands of her label. It's not ridicule to point out that you are indulging in fantasy...that's just observation. I want Jackie to succeed at whatever she does...but ignoring the negatives and challenges isn't doing her or anyone any favors. You can never fix what you don't acknowledge.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 7, 2022 14:14:44 GMT -5
"If creative freedom to you is, the label tells you to sing Joni Mitchell songs, and then you get to pick which Joni Mitchell songs.."
First, you don't know that the label told jackie to sing Mitchell songs. That's an assumption, not fact. Second, I didn't say she picked the songs. However, there's no evidence that she didn't make determinations in that regard.
" Not sure if the interpretation of the songs are Jackie's doing, the labels, or the musicians...probably a combination."
No one does the artistic interpreting for Jackie, not Fred, and certainly not the musicians. Fred does the arranging and some intrumentation as well, and the musicians provide the accompaniment. Jackie is the artist, a master of interpretation, and she's not going to be told to "sing it this way". She is no longer "malleable and naive" in the studio. Rather, she has become more confident and assertive, as she said about "having her way" in getting what she wanted in the studio while recording The Debut. She is certainly not "naive" with 12 years of experience working with various producers and musicians, beginning with David Foster and those who followed in producing 8 albums. I give credit to Jackie when credit is due. I think you give too much credence to what her mom has said who is no longer her spokesman. Jackie speaks for herself and makes her own decisions toward achieving her vision as an artist. Of course certain demands were made by Fred, that's a given, but not telling Jackie, whom he obviously respects as a vocal artist, how how to interpret a song.
Edit add: Excerpt from Fred Mollin News, Summer 2022, speaking of Carousel of Time: "This is a beautiful record that I did last year, featuring the brilliance of Jackie Evancho as she interprets the greatest songs of Joni Mitchell."
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Post by Willyiam on Jun 17, 2022 15:11:36 GMT -5
Jackie Evancho - Both Sides Now (Official Video)
VIDEO: Jackie Evancho Releases 'Both Sides Now' Music Video
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Post by lawrence on Jun 18, 2022 10:01:08 GMT -5
Jackie Evancho - Both Sides Now (Official Video)
VIDEO: Jackie Evancho Releases 'Both Sides Now' Music Video
I've read all 270 comments on the video to date...overwhelmingly positive and congratulatory. Not one negative or critical of her interpretation.
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