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Post by lawrence on May 27, 2023 13:13:42 GMT -5
I'll preface this discussion with a pertinent excerpt from Jackie's interview with Entertainment Tonight, May 11, 2020 following her appearance on The Masked Singer:
Charlie O'Keefe: "Do you ever fear that switching over, crossing genres, or steering more towards pop will abandon those dedicated fans?"
Jackie: "I do fear that, and that's the biggest challenge of being so public so young. Nobody makes decisions at 10 years old that are set in stone, you know? I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who've been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover, it's not like that will disappear. But, I hope that my fans will decide to grow with me, not against me."
A comment rickolsen made in shoutbox prompted me to ask the question, Who is still a Jackie fan?:
"He (Agog) told me he isn't a Jackie fan anymore. He liked her Classical Crossover music, but she isn't doing that anymore."
Well, Jackie has been performing classical crossover songs in concert since she dazzled the TMS audiences with her experimental performances of pop, country, pop ballads, Broadway and jazz, sticking with her statement to ET that she would not neglect her cc fans. Keep in mind that cc is inclusive of a relatively broad spectrum of genres. The Debut contains songs from Broadway which is in effect classical crossover, though a slight departure from what is considered "traditional" cc. Reference an article titled, "Borrowed By Broadway: When Classical Music And Musical Theatre Unite....Amy Bishop examines the overlap of classical music and musical theatre." The only really significant departure has been Jackie's album, Carousel of Time, a compilation of Joni Mitchell's music released less than a year ago.
Personally, I thoroughly enjoy all of Jackie's later albums as well as the earlier ones, including Carousel of Time. First and foremost, besides the exquisite beauty of her voice evident in all her music, what I appreciate about Jackie is that she is an exceptionally versatile vocalist and a true artist with respect to her ability to interpret songs from a variety of genres and make them "her own", whether they be classical, classic pop, symphonic metal, jazz, Broadway, ballads, country, pop or folk. Even her rock performances from "Get Jack" showed the diversity of her vocal talent. It's unfortunate that former Jackie fans cannot appreciate her versatility, having chosen not to "grow" with her. It would be interesting to know who among the members here have made that choice, and for what reason....Also, who remains a loyal fan and why?
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Post by Willyiam on May 27, 2023 17:12:38 GMT -5
I'll preface this discussion with a pertinent excerpt from Jackie's interview with Entertainment Tonight, May 11, 2020 following her appearance on The Masked Singer: Charlie O'Keefe: "Do you ever fear that switching over, crossing genres, or steering more towards pop will abandon those dedicated fans?"
Jackie: "I do fear that, and that's the biggest challenge of being so public so young. Nobody makes decisions at 10 years old that are set in stone, you know? I do not want to neglect those loyal fans who've been with me from the beginning. And, I will always have that love for classical crossover, it's not like that will disappear. But, I hope that my fans will decide to grow with me, not against me."
A comment rickolsen made in shoutbox prompted me to ask the question, Who is still a Jackie fan?: "He (Agog) told me he isn't a Jackie fan anymore. He liked her Classical Crossover music, but she isn't doing that anymore." Well, Jackie has been performing classical crossover songs in concert since she dazzled the TMS audiences with her experimental performances of pop, country, pop ballads, Broadway and jazz, sticking with her statement to ET that she would not neglect her cc fans. keep in mind that cc is inclusive of a relatively broad spectrum of genres. The Debut contains songs from Broadway which is in effect classical crossover, though a slight departure from what is considered "traditional" cc. Reference an article titled, "Borrowed By Broadway: When Classical Music And Musical Theatre Unite....Amy Bishop examines the overlap of classical music and musical theatre." The only really significant departure has been Jackie's album, Carousel of Time, a compilation of Joni Mitchell's music released less than a year ago. Personally, I thoroughly enjoy all of Jackie's later albums as well as the earlier ones, including Carousel of Time. First and foremost, besides the exquisite beauty of her voice evident in all her music, what I appreciate about Jackie is that she is an exceptionally versatile vocalist and a true artist with respect to her ability to interpret songs from a variety of genres and make them "her own", whether they be classical, classic pop, symphonic metal, jazz, Broadway, ballads, country, pop or folk. Even her rock performances from "Get Jack" showed the diversity of her vocal talent. It's unfortunate that former Jackie fans cannot appreciate her versatility, having chosen not to "grow" with her. It would be interesting to know who among the members here have made that choice, and for what reason....Also, who remains a loyal fan and why? lawrence: I've been following Jackie since she was 11. First on Amazon, then here, on Rick's forum. What drew me to her, was, at 11, how pure her voice was. And still is!!When she started to stray from CC into Pop, I decided to stick with her, if only to see where she ended up! We, as loyal fans, over the years, have endured her ups and downs: A bout with Atypical Pneumonia, album releases, family disruption, gaining a new sister, car accident and broken back, and lately, her public announcement of her health issues. At 23, I don't believe she has reached her potential, and I'll stick with her even when she has!!
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Post by msims on May 27, 2023 21:48:02 GMT -5
Joni Mitchell Both Sides Now has been covered by other CC artists.
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Post by jcas on May 28, 2023 7:55:51 GMT -5
I am as unsure about continuing to be a fan of what and how Jackie expresses her gift as I think Jackie seems to be at this point in her life and career. Something of quality was somehow and for some reason subtracted from her life long uncanny ability to find and brilliantly express what the originator of any song she covered intended when they composed it between her Debut album in which she had it and Carousel in which she very definitely didn't. That indefinably special quality lost was replaced by banality in both her vocal and interpretive expression of Mitchell's very unique songs. I could blame it on the quality and type of Mitchell's songs except I've heard brilliantly beautiful covers of them by many other artists, Jackie's no where among them.
It sounds like Jackie's next album will be of songs she's composed about herself and her "issues". Ugh and groan. I once wrote on a proboard some years ago that if Jackie quit singing at any point, I would remain inspired and thrilled by her interpretation of any song she sang until then for the rest of my life. Sad for me to say, that I think that point was reached somewhere between her Debut album and Carousel. If, God willing, she finds and somehow regains what imho she's lost, my enjoyment of what she does then will return. During the wait, I'll continue to love and enjoy what she did until Carousel and discovering the brilliant, poetic artistry of singer/song writers like the late Kate Wolf, Nancy Griffith, Townes VanZandt, Gordon Lightfoot and many others who I once loved and lost track of. If you love all music like I always have, you know the choices available to you ..... are of an infinite quantity and source.
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Post by lawrence on May 28, 2023 14:10:44 GMT -5
I am as unsure about continuing to be a fan of what and how Jackie expresses her gift as I think Jackie seems to be at this point in her life and career. Something of quality was somehow and for some reason subtracted from her life long uncanny ability to find and brilliantly express what the originator of any song she covered intended when they composed it between her Debut album in which she had it and Carousel in which she very definitely didn't. That indefinably special quality lost was replaced by banality in both her vocal and interpretive expression of Mitchell's very unique songs. I could blame it on the quality and type of Mitchell's songs except I've heard brilliantly beautiful covers of them by many other artists, Jackie's no where among them. It sounds like Jackie's next album will be of songs she's composed about herself and her "issues". Ugh and groan. I once wrote on a proboard some years ago that if Jackie quit singing at any point, I would remain inspired and thrilled by her interpretation of any song she sang until then for the rest of my life. Sad for me to say, that I think that point was reached somewhere between her Debut album and Carousel. If, God willing, she finds and somehow regains what imho she's lost, my enjoyment of what she does then will return. During the wait, I'll continue to love and enjoy what she did until Carousel and discovering the brilliant, poetic artistry of singer/song writers like the late Kate Wolf, Nancy Griffith, Townes VanZandt, Gordon Lightfoot and many others who I once loved and lost track of. If you love all music like I always have, you know the choices available to you ..... are of an infinite quantity and source. I respect your prerogative to "wait". However, I disagree with your opinion that Jackie's ability to brilliantly express what the originator of a song intended has diminished. It is subjective, after all. I think she interpreted Joni's songs honestly and brilliantly with respect to Joni's intention, while putting a slight twist on her renditions to make them her own, which Jackie generally does with any artist in ways more subtle than dramatic. Joni's music is not intended to be showcase material for a vocalist, but story-telling, and that's what Jackie loves about Joni's music and relates to personally, what inspired her to make the album. Joni is an extraordinary lyricist, perhaps the most influential female songwriter of the past century, who wrote about her own emotions and insights, "sacrificing herself to the song", as she put it. Actually her songs were made hits by other artists who recorded them. As John Lennon had said to Joni, "Why do you let other people have your hits for you?". It's apparent to me that Jackie's intention with Carousel was to be true to Joni Mitchell the songwriter, and to pay tribute to her works. And, she did it with integrity in portraying the songs earnestly as heart-felt stories, intimately and beautifully, in my view. I made a cd of Carousel and The Debut that I play in my car stereo set on random play. The Debut is also story-telling, the songs being Broadway soliloquies. Driving along, not listening intently, the similarities are apparent as a song from The Debut is followed by one from Carousel and visa a versa. I am not struck by any significant differences in Jackie's vocalizations except she's singing in different styles each appropriate to the song, rendering each as if it were her own. That's how I listen to Jackie, as if she were the original songwriter. Also, therein lies the wonder of her versatility.
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Post by rlhamil on May 28, 2023 22:12:34 GMT -5
While I can't say that CoT was my favorite, that's not because there's anything wrong with it, but that there were few Joni Mitchell songs that I liked before that, and those mostly versions by other singers. As lawrence said, I think she did them well and respectfully while definitely not copying them exactly, but rather understanding and re-interpreting them. If anything, Jackie might have been a bit too faithful to the originals for my taste on that particular material.
In concert, she still sings a variety from her prior albums as well as perhaps 40% or so from the latest. And I certainly don't think she's more indifferent about the older material than the new. So IMO, nothing she has ever done before has gone away from her.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 4:02:35 GMT -5
I've only been a jackie fan since mid-2017 because of her pop songs. In my opinion, Jackie's strength lies in the expression, depth and independence of her singing. The Debut is my favorite album. Unfortunately, COT has too little influence from Jackie herself and too much from Joni for me, possibly due to the production problems. As long as Jackie doesn't slip into the banal pop milieu, I'll continue to be a fan.
In my opinion, Jackie has to create a clear concept for her live performances. The concept with many different styles is not conducive to ticket sales. If her next album has a different style that has a certain truthfulness, she should follow through with that style.
It is interesting how many people report here. The thousands of new fans jackie has gained in recent years have not yet registered here.
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Post by Willyiam on May 29, 2023 7:55:32 GMT -5
I've only been a jackie fan since mid-2017 because of her pop songs. In my opinion, Jackie's strength lies in the expression, depth and independence of her singing. The Debut is my favorite album. Unfortunately, COT has too little influence from Jackie herself and too much from Joni for me, possibly due to the production problems. As long as Jackie doesn't slip into the banal pop milieu, I'll continue to be a fan. In my opinion, Jackie has to create a clear concept for her live performances. The concept with many different styles is not conducive to ticket sales. If her next album has a different style that has a certain truthfulness, she should follow through with that style. It is interesting how many people report here. The thousands of new fans jackie has gained in recent years have not yet registered here. I have to agree zwergnase!! I have been to enough concerts of other singers and performers, to realize that in order to draw them in, there has to be a schtick!! Jackie's schtick early in her career, was her youth! A young girl, not yet a teenager, with a voice pure as silk and singing like an adult, is what brought them to her concerts!! But, now at 23, she can't just rely on the purity of her voice! IMO, she needs to strengthen her rapport with the audience and become more at ease on stage! I don't mean become a standup comic, but to give the audience something else to look forward to, besides her voice!!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 8:24:03 GMT -5
I've only been a jackie fan since mid-2017 because of her pop songs. In my opinion, Jackie's strength lies in the expression, depth and independence of her singing. The Debut is my favorite album. Unfortunately, COT has too little influence from Jackie herself and too much from Joni for me, possibly due to the production problems. As long as Jackie doesn't slip into the banal pop milieu, I'll continue to be a fan. In my opinion, Jackie has to create a clear concept for her live performances. The concept with many different styles is not conducive to ticket sales. If her next album has a different style that has a certain truthfulness, she should follow through with that style. It is interesting how many people report here. The thousands of new fans jackie has gained in recent years have not yet registered here. I have to agree zwergnase!! I have been to enough concerts of other singers and performers, to realize that in order to draw them in, there has to be a schtick!! Jackie's schtick early in her career, was her youth! A young girl, not yet a teenager, with a voice pure as silk and singing like an adult, is what brought them to her concerts!! But, now at 23, she can't just rely on the purity of her voice! IMO, she needs to strengthen her rapport with the audience and become more at ease on stage! I don't mean become a standup comic, but to give the audience something else to look forward to, besides her voice!!
But to do this, Jackie needs the right songs, musicians and fans. In my opinion, Jackie's tour concerts will take place in a City Winery-like ambience in the future. Maybe even smaller. But everything is still unclear at the moment.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 2, 2023 9:07:37 GMT -5
In view of comments expressing disappointment with Carousel of Time, and with regard to Jackie's "stagnation" at present, coupled with the possibility that her anticipated album of original songs may not be well received, it seems that Jackie may be losing fans here. As I stated in my opening comment, "....It's unfortunate that former Jackie fans cannot appreciate her versatility, having chosen not to "grow" with her. It would be interesting to know who among the members here have made that choice, and for what reason....Also, who remains a loyal fan and why?" Only a relative few have expressed their views here thus far. We know that rickolsen/Admin has stated on occasion in the past that Jackie hasn't produced anything worthwhile to him since about age 11 and has shown no interest in her for a long time. He wrote in the shoutbox recently that agog (no longer active on the forum) "isn't a Jackie fan anymore. He liked her Classical Crossover music, but she isn't doing that anymore". Not everyone is interested in the "Other Artists" thread to know what is posted there. I only visit it on occasion when I see a post about a new artist. Having noticed however the frequency with which geb posts on the Angelina Jordan thread, and that he had not responded here, I addressed him with this comment: Geb, I see post after post from you promoting Angelina on this forum. That's your prerogative of course, and I understand your enthusiasm for her. I think folks would like to know how you feel about Jackie, whether you are still a fan or not, and why. Please join the conversation on "Who is Still a Jackie Fan" under General Discussion of Jackie and offer a pertinent comment to let us know. He responded: I already said on numerous occasions that I am a Jackie fan, and will ALWAYS be one. And I also said that I like dozens upon dozens upon dozens of other artists. As far back as I remember, since 2011, many fans complained about varying aspects of Jackie's career and wondered why Jackie's management was doing what they were doing and wondering why they were not doing more on social media and why they were almost antagonistic with videos on YouTube. Many of us thought that these were not good policies. So far, it seems, unfortunately, we look to have been pretty much correct about social media and that an opportunity to grow her base was missed by Jackie and her management team. Thank you geb. urus also responded on the Angelina thread: I continue to watch Jackie’s videos and have bought all of her albums except Prelude to a Dream and Carousel of Time. I don’t care for Joni Mitchell’s songs and singing and actually like Jackie’s renditions better than the originals—but not enough to want a copy.....I started to continue to write why I think that Jackie's career is stagnating and others of her age group are not, but I will leave that for some other day. Thank you ursus.
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Post by Willyiam on Jun 2, 2023 14:00:09 GMT -5
In view of comments expressing disappointment with Carousel of Time, and with regard to Jackie's "stagnation" at present, coupled with the possibility that her anticipated album of original songs may not be well received, it seems that Jackie may be losing fans here. As I stated in my opening comment, "....It's unfortunate that former Jackie fans cannot appreciate her versatility, having chosen not to "grow" with her. It would be interesting to know who among the members here have made that choice, and for what reason....Also, who remains a loyal fan and why?" Only a relative few have expressed their views here thus far. We know that rickolsen/Admin has stated on occasion in the past that Jackie hasn't produced anything worthwhile to him since about age 11 and has shown no interest in her for a long time. He wrote in the shoutbox recently that agog (no longer active on the forum) "isn't a Jackie fan anymore. He liked her Classical Crossover music, but she isn't doing that anymore". Not everyone is interested in the "Other Artists" thread to know what is posted there. I only visit it on occasion when I see a post about a new artist. Having noticed however the frequency with which geb posts on the Angelina Jordan thread, and that he had not responded here, I addressed him with this comment: Geb, I see post after post from you promoting Angelina on this forum. That's your prerogative of course, and I understand your enthusiasm for her. I think folks would like to know how you feel about Jackie, whether you are still a fan or not, and why. Please join the conversation on "Who is Still a Jackie Fan" under General Discussion of Jackie and offer a pertinent comment to let us know. He responded: I already said on numerous occasions that I am a Jackie fan, and will ALWAYS be one. And I also said that I like dozens upon dozens upon dozens of other artists. As far back as I remember, since 2011, many fans complained about varying aspects of Jackie's career and wondered why Jackie's management was doing what they were doing and wondering why they were not doing more on social media and why they were almost antagonistic with videos on YouTube. Many of us thought that these were not good policies. So far, it seems, unfortunately, we look to have been pretty much correct about social media and that an opportunity to grow her base was missed by Jackie and her management team. Thank you geb. urus also responded on the Angelina thread: I continue to watch Jackie’s videos and have bought all of her albums except Prelude to a Dream and Carousel of Time. I don’t care for Joni Mitchell’s songs and singing and actually like Jackie’s renditions better than the originals—but not enough to want a copy.....I started to continue to write why I think that Jackie's career is stagnating and others of her age group are not, but I will leave that for some other day. Thank you ursus. lawrence: With all due respect, you must admit that following Jackie's career for all these years, has been anything but a smooth ride!! To her fans, her early years and into her teens, presented a performer that could pop into stardom at any time, but then, with Covid-19, the lack of Social Media exposure, an unkept website, genre changes, and health issues, only those with a strong attachment to Jackie have persisted!! Those that are still posting are the ones keeping this forum alive!! And kudos to Admin/Rick for not abandoning those of us that are left!!
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Post by johnnyb on Jun 2, 2023 15:29:01 GMT -5
In view of comments expressing disappointment with Carousel of Time, and with regard to Jackie's "stagnation" at present, coupled with the possibility that her anticipated album of original songs may not be well received, it seems that Jackie may be losing fans here. As I stated in my opening comment, "....It's unfortunate that former Jackie fans cannot appreciate her versatility, having chosen not to "grow" with her. It would be interesting to know who among the members here have made that choice, and for what reason....Also, who remains a loyal fan and why?" Only a relative few have expressed their views here thus far. We know that rickolsen/Admin has stated on occasion in the past that Jackie hasn't produced anything worthwhile to him since about age 11 and has shown no interest in her for a long time. He wrote in the shoutbox recently that agog (no longer active on the forum) "isn't a Jackie fan anymore. He liked her Classical Crossover music, but she isn't doing that anymore". Not everyone is interested in the "Other Artists" thread to know what is posted there. I only visit it on occasion when I see a post about a new artist. Having noticed however the frequency with which geb posts on the Angelina Jordan thread, and that he had not responded here, I addressed him with this comment: He responded: Thank you geb. urus also responded on the Angelina thread: Thank you ursus. lawrence: With all due respect, you must admit that following Jackie's career for all these years, has been anything but a smooth ride!! To her fans, her early years and into her teens, presented a performer that could pop into stardom at any time, but then, with Covid-19, the lack of Social Media exposure, an unkept website, genre changes, and health issues, only those with a strong attachment to Jackie have persisted!! Those that are still posting are the ones keeping this forum alive!! And kudos to Admin/Rick for not abandoning those of us that are left!!
No worries there Willy, we welcome all people over at Amazon Revisted, even ones with their knickers in a perpetual twist. 🥴
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Post by lawrence on Jun 2, 2023 23:56:28 GMT -5
lawrence: With all due respect, you must admit that following Jackie's career for all these years, has been anything but a smooth ride!! To her fans, her early years and into her teens, presented a performer that could pop into stardom at any time, but then, with Covid-19, the lack of Social Media exposure, an unkept website, genre changes, and health issues, only those with a strong attachment to Jackie have persisted!! It's been a rough road for HER, anything but a smooth ride, particularly the past 3 years. My heart goes out to her. I support and promote Jackie not only compelled by my appreciation of the exceptionally versatile artist she has become, but also because of the person she is and what she has endured with integrity, courage and determination. In my view, many fans have been lost to her because they've had certain expectation of her. She doesn't meet them, so they simply dismiss her as having "gone in the wrong direction"...whether it's her music, her lack of social media presence, an unsatisfactory website or whatever. That's easy. So is loyalty, if it's unconditional.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 7, 2023 12:47:34 GMT -5
It's apparent that some fans have left Jackie because she "doesn't sing classical crossover anymore". It's not true however, because she always performs fan favorites from past albums, her favorites from POTO mixed with songs from her current album. As announced by The Centrum Theater where Jackie is scheduled next year, "With her newest show, An Evening with Jackie Evancho, Jackie will be chronicling her career thus far as well as introducing fans to new music. Singing songs from all her albums and including songs that go back to her roots on America’s Got Talent..."
In my estimation, when defining a Jackie fan, it comes down to whether one is a fan of Jackie the exploratory, experimental and versatile artist or the Jackie who sings one's favorite CC songs, forget the other "crap" she's been singing. It's not that I don't respect ones preference in music, but it seems to me that the latter is a "fair weather" fan, not what I would consider loyal, as are those who have chosen to "grow with her", as she hoped, while expanding her search for music that is meaningful to her. That integrity is what makes Jackie a true artist, soon to be acknowledged a songwriter as well. Personally, I thoroughly enjoy all her music from Puccini to Joni Mitchell because I listen, not necessarily to what she is singing or who's music she is singing, but to how she is interpreting and conveying the lyrics as if she were the songwriter. She is exceptionally adept in that regard, making each song her own as it were. It's notable also that she has not lost the clarity and sheer beauty of her voice which pervades all her music regardless of genre, the primary attribute that has attracted millions of fans over the years.
I feel a kind of sorrow for those who can't or refuse to appreciate her versatility, that they are missing the magic that makes Jackie the artist she is, evident since those days at age 8/9, the child we all admired, when she was singing pop, Broadway, rock, country, etc. as well as what some consider traditional classical crossover. Why is it different today, that one chooses not to be a fan because she sings those genres as an adult?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2023 13:32:48 GMT -5
It's apparent that some fans have left Jackie because she "doesn't sing classical crossover anymore". It's not true however, because she always performs fan favorites from past albums, her favorites from POTO mixed with songs from her current album. As announced by The Centrum Theater where Jackie is scheduled next year, "With her newest show, An Evening with Jackie Evancho, Jackie will be chronicling her career thus far as well as introducing fans to new music. Singing songs from all her albums and including songs that go back to her roots on America’s Got Talent..." In my estimation, when defining a Jackie fan, it comes down to whether one is a fan of Jackie the exploratory, experimental and versatile artist or the Jackie who sings one's favorite CC songs, forget the other "crap" she's been singing. It's not that I don't respect ones preference in music, but it seems to me that the latter is a "fair weather" fan, not what I would consider loyal, as are those who have chosen to "grow with her", as she hoped, while expanding her search for music that is meaningful to her. That integrity is what makes Jackie a true artist, soon to be acknowledged a songwriter as well. Personally, I thoroughly enjoy all her music from Puccini to Joni Mitchell because I listen, not necessarily to what she is singing or who's music she is singing, but to how she is interpreting and conveying the lyrics as if she were the songwriter. She is exceptionally adept in that regard, making each song her own as it were. It's notable also that she has not lost the clarity and sheer beauty of her voice which pervades all her music regardless of genre, the primary attribute that has attracted millions of fans over the years. I feel a kind of sorrow for those you can't or refuse to appreciate her versatility, that they are missing the magic that makes Jackie the artist she is, evident since those days at age 8, the child we all admired, when she was singing pop, Broadway, jazz, rock, country, etc. as well as what some consider traditional classical crossover. Why is it different today, that one chooses not to be a fan because she sings those genres as an adult? Most people were just fans because Jackie was a kid, that's the problem. Jackie also made too many mistakes that a CC artist is not allowed to make. see Charlotte Church. Jackie's voice, emotion and demeanor is no longer that of a child. What do CC fans want, a classic voice like that of Katherine Jenkins. Jackie uses way too much pop technique and chest voice. That's is a another part of the problem.
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