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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 8:41:23 GMT -5
That video. I'll have to post at Amz to give my opinion of it and how I feel Jackie is being ill served in her video offerings so far. The short sanitized version of my fault-finding is not having an acting coach and an advisor with some credentials in specific skill sets that Jackie is asked to portray. Thanks for your detailed review; appreciated the effort you put into it. But for the life, I can't figure out what your problem is with Jackie's acting. I guess it's a highly subjective thing, but to me she does great. I reviewed Safe & Sound and Writing's on the Wall, to try and see what you mean. High points, for me: In S&S, the sequence starting at 3:05 for me is a heartbreaker. In just a moment, she sums up the story. In WotW, her expression at 3:02 says several things at once: I knew you were there, but I also know you aren't a back shooter- now we'll have it out...
Maybe your irritation with the big screen distraction at concerts is affecting you, which I agree with. I think screens, if anything at concerts, would best be used to give the seats further back a closeup view of Jackie's expression as she sings. Preferably off to the side, not right in back of her. Jackie IS the show.
BTW, no need to segregate your honest opinions to AMZ; let's hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 10:06:29 GMT -5
Lovers was next along with the loud bass issues on the backing track. The bass volume was particularly noticeable Lovers was next along with the loud bass issues on the backing track. The bass volume was particularly noticeable
I'm in agreement with you about loudness- it's long been a problem for me. But we might be in the minority judging from how things generally are. It's the reason I quit going to rock shows at nightclubs. The sound was always uncomfortably loud. I wondered if it was because the performers and their techs were partially deaf.
I've only been to one show with Peter K., at Celebrity Theater in Phoenix. There too, it was for me, too loud- plus the sound system was overwhelmed at times by Jackie's high notes- maybe because the general level was set too loud. The other two Jackie concerts I have been to were in Denver in a symphony hall with full orchestra; the sound was fine there.
edit add: sorry about the multiple quotes- I was trying to use the "quick quote" feature, fumbling around I guess!
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Post by rick158 on Oct 10, 2016 11:36:35 GMT -5
That video. I'll have to post at Amz to give my opinion of it and how I feel Jackie is being ill served in her video offerings so far. The short sanitized version of my fault-finding is not having an acting coach and an advisor with some credentials in specific skill sets that Jackie is asked to portray. Thanks for your detailed review; appreciated the effort you put into it. But for the life, I can't figure out what your problem is with Jackie's acting. I guess it's a highly subjective thing, but to me she does great. I reviewed Safe & Sound and Writing's on the Wall, to try and see what you mean. High points, for me: In S&S, the sequence starting at 3:05 for me is a heartbreaker. In just a moment, she sums up the story. In WotW, her expression at 3:02 says several things at once: I knew you were there, but I also know you aren't a back shooter- now we'll have it out...
Maybe your irritation with the big screen distraction at concerts is affecting you, which I agree with. I think screens, if anything at concerts, would best be used to give the seats further back a closeup view of Jackie's expression as she sings. Preferably off to the side, not right in back of her. Jackie IS the show.
BTW, no need to segregate your honest opinions to AMZ; let's hear it.
I agree. Loved the videos and Jackie's acting in them not sure what agog sees as short comings but I am all ears. No need from my perspective not to honestly to speak your mind here. I also agree that the screen at the concerts is a distraction and if one is used at all it should be solely for the on stage talent, primarily Jackie. Some of the concerts in 2011 and 2012 used screens for that purpose and I am sure that the audience appreciated the closer view of Jackie during her performance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 22:48:50 GMT -5
I agree with you guys about the video. It's distracting, for the most part. I've noticed that it works better when the images are patterned or abstract. I remember during one song there was smoke curling, another had a bunch of floating candles. That was ok. But when the images are representational the mind is prone to create a narrative and that is distracting. Showing Jackie on the screen is not needed with the small audiences these days. Also, if you wanted more than one camera angle you would have to have someone function as visual director during the show. Much more complicated and expensive than playing some recorded videos.
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Post by pgantioch on Oct 10, 2016 23:48:46 GMT -5
Lovers was next along with the loud bass issues on the backing track. The bass volume was particularly noticeable Lovers was next along with the loud bass issues on the backing track. The bass volume was particularly noticeable
I'm in agreement with you about loudness- it's long been a problem for me. But we might be in the minority judging from how things generally are. It's the reason I quit going to rock shows at nightclubs. The sound was always uncomfortably loud. I wondered if it was because the performers and their techs were partially deaf.
I've only been to one show with Peter K., at Celebrity Theater in Phoenix. There too, it was for me, too loud- plus the sound system was overwhelmed at times by Jackie's high notes- maybe because the general level was set too loud. The other two Jackie concerts I have been to were in Denver in a symphony hall with full orchestra; the sound was fine there.
edit add: sorry about the multiple quotes- I was trying to use the "quick quote" feature, fumbling around I guess! Agree about the loudness. Also we have loudness "wars" with recorded music, which reduce dynamic range. I agree with others about this. Maybe people are too used to loud rock & roll, LOL.
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Post by agog on Oct 23, 2016 12:04:45 GMT -5
That video. I'll have to post at Amz to give my opinion of it and how I feel Jackie is being ill served in her video offerings so far. The short sanitized version of my fault-finding is not having an acting coach and an advisor with some credentials in specific skill sets that Jackie is asked to portray. Thanks for your detailed review; appreciated the effort you put into it. But for the life, I can't figure out what your problem is with Jackie's acting. I guess it's a highly subjective thing, but to me she does great. I reviewed Safe & Sound and Writing's on the Wall, to try and see what you mean. High points, for me: In S&S, the sequence starting at 3:05 for me is a heartbreaker. In just a moment, she sums up the story. In WotW, her expression at 3:02 says several things at once: I knew you were there, but I also know you aren't a back shooter- now we'll have it out...
Maybe your irritation with the big screen distraction at concerts is affecting you, which I agree with. I think screens, if anything at concerts, would best be used to give the seats further back a closeup view of Jackie's expression as she sings. Preferably off to the side, not right in back of her. Jackie IS the show.
BTW, no need to segregate your honest opinions to AMZ; let's hear it.
Hello Shrodinger and all the rest of Jackie's fans who contribute here. Sorry it took so long to respond to your query about my fault finding with Jackie's videos and her acting in them. Here goes. 1. Writing/scripting or lack thereof: "Jackie, look into the camera and sing." "Jackie, stand by the water's edge and sing." "Jackie,"sit on the grass and sing." "Jackie stand by that tree and sing." There was no story to draw the viewer into the video. Just none. A young man in a "Captain Morgan" outfit, twenty yards offshore, rowing away in a wooden dingy, toward a tall ship that could easily have been CGI'd on the horizon, would have shown Jackie wistfully saying farewell to a love interest she won't see again for years, if ever. What the buying public got was Jackie standing, sitting and looking, as she sang. Jackie deserves better. 2. Acting coach: One of my earliest observations in Jackie's videos was that Jackie is not being coached, not even at the high school drama class level. Isn't it Apocalypse that Jackie plays Katniss, a girl forced into an all against all death match where only the last man standing gets to live? One scene shows Katniss walking on a road in a wooded area. I don't see the movement of a warrior who has survived deadly encounters from all points of the compass at any time day or night. I see an American girl, perhaps from Peoria or even Pittsburgh, (shudder) slightly bored as teens can get during the Summer months, walking non chalantly. No arrow nocked, no scan for threats, no scan for cover or concealment in case of attack. I saw Jackie walking, not Katniss moving. (one S or two in Katniss?) And poor Rachel. Mockingjay right? I can just hear: The producer: "We need a little girl! His assistant: "There's one! But she seems to be wearing a mattress cover." The producer: "Don't bother me with details! Get me that girl!" I saw Rachel at Longwood. We were seated, it was before the show. Andre10s (RIP Andre, a true Jackie fan) and I were talking Jackie. We had made it to the show. The world was great. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed movement that could only come from a perfect little girl. It took me a second to realize it was Rachel and a stout young fellow following her as escort/bodyguard. Rachel had the easy, perfect posture of a little girl who the good sisters at a Catholic school had trained. (I know, the E kids attend public school) Her hair was well brushed and went all the way down her back. She was as pretty that day as any little girl on the planet. THAT'S the Rachel/ Mockingjay we should have seen on that video. But no one bothered. 3. Advisors for specific skill sets: If Jackie were to act out a karate fight in an upcoming vid, would you expect her to be able to give a convincing performance without a martial arts advisor to show her what position she should start from? What position she should finish at? What positions she should flow through to get from start to finish convincingly? Of course not. Without knowledgeable advisors on set, her attempt would be amateurish. Such was the case in her James Bond video with Juliet playing the evil crime lord. Jackie looked WONDERFUL in that vid. Her hair combed severely tight to her head (a first afaik) and a man's dark suit conveyed the worldly sophistication required for a Bond actor. Ten thumbs up! But she had a specific technical task to perform throughout most of the video and she flopped miserably at it. It was firearm's handling. A task as specific as a martial arts fight but easier and more quickly taught/learned. One scene shows Jackie's hand as she is walking while carrying her pistol. She is holding that pistol with as much awareness and care as she would give to holding her i-phone. Her grip is soft, her finger is resting casually on the trigger yet not in a ready to squeeze position. Acceptable professional standards, and I would stipulate that James Bond is a professional with firearms, is strictly TRIGGER FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AND OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD. A well trained, well practiced firearms user MIGHT, under circumstances I can't conjure up, with great awareness that he/she is violating a primary rule, carry a pistol pointed toward the ground with a finger on the trigger, but NEVER with a casual, non ready, finger placement. Then, in the climax scene where the two antagonists are facing each other, AIMING!, or rather should be doing so, at a specific shot placement point on the other, I see not, two deadly, well trained, experienced pistoleros with a proper stance (step ONE of five easy steps in firearms accuracy) leaning at least slightly into their target. I do see two American high school girls play acting. Holding unfamiliar objects in an unfamiliar way. Both girls leaning backwards. The, maybe icky, objects are held as far away as arm length allows and their heads are as far back on their necks as physiology allows. This is the posture taken by us when a dog vomits something in the back yard only partially digested. You get a stick to hook it with and you keep the disgusting whatever, as far from you as possible, even bending your neck back to maximize distance. Any small town in America has NRA certified basic firearm safety instructors. Most even small towns have an NRA certified police firearm instructor. A city the size of Pittsburgh would have a dozen or more certified advanced police instructors that would make themselves available for a modest fee. The team is penny wise and pound foolish imo when they don't seek a competent advisor for specific tasks Jackie is asked to portray. Ok. That's enough for now. I do hope we can have a conversation about Jackie beginning to ACT, and not just be herself all dressed up before the camera.
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Post by agog on Oct 23, 2016 12:27:46 GMT -5
My fellow posters. I chose to post a more detailed "fault analysis" of Jackie and Juliet's firearms handling in the above video because I have some small credentials in that specific area. 1st Cav Military Police 1968-69, and as a deputy with the Orleans Parish criminal sheriff's office. "The nice people who put you in jail for peeing in the alleyway at Mardi Gras."
However my complaint stands in areas I have zero experience in as well. If Jackie is asked to be a surfer girl in a future video, HIRE an expert so she doesn't make a amateur hash out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 9:42:26 GMT -5
#agog - Glad you got to this- just this morning as I woke up I remembered, and wondered if you had forgotten.
Think of Me - I agree that there was no idea of a story, the focus is just Jackie singing- but I don't have a problem with that. Just Jackie, with some different costumes and -hopefully- interesting surroundings. Maybe not as interesting as might have been, but more so than sitting in a chair in a hotel lobby next to her accompanist as in Blank Space; and the sort of empty, almost bleak shoreline does sort of express the loneliness of separation. Your scenario of the dude in the rowboat sounds a little, pardon me, corny; too literal. And for it to fit, the whole thing would have to be more of a period piece, costumes and surroundings. Jackie isn't called upon to act, really, beyond the expression of the song's mood, which she does well enough IMO.
Safe & Sound - (not Apocalypse) Notice that she wears two costumes, with two different bows. In the "ordinary" clothes costume, she sings; and is not acting as Katniss in the games. And in fact does not even have the bow in the correct hand to be ready to shoot. Maybe the idea is that this is after the games, she wanders in the woods, thinking of her dead sister, not even thinking of combat, or even seeking game- perhaps "going hunting" was just an excuse to get off by herself and ponder things. In contrast, in the warrior costume, she does not sing, she acts as Katniss in the games; the singing is voice-over narration of the action. And her arrow is nocked and ready, bow in the correct hand. (Question for those that have seen the movie: Was Katniss only allowed one arrow?)
I haven't seen the movie, but it appears to me, again, that it's not intended to be quite literal- does the ghost of her sister appear to her in the movie? I don't know, but the impression I got was that it's more about mood, and allegorical reference to the story in the movie. Her sister is so present in her mind that she keeps appearing to her, a presence more and more "real". Finally, at 2:44, she appears to Jackie in the ordinary-clothes persona; so real that Jackie gets an actual hug; but even that is quickly shown to be only imaginary as the picture returns to Jackie wandering, singing- and then at 3:04 she weeps, overcome with memories, and looks around her, thinking, if only it could have been real. I thought it was powerful.
As for Rachel's costume and hairdo- again I haven't seen the movie, but isn't it supposed to be the sort of home-made peasant garb that Katniss' family wore in their ordinary lives? It's not about what an adorable little girl Rachel is; it was a role.
Writings On The Wall - I'm glad that you appreciate the visuals more here. Your criticism comes mainly from your firearms training. But here again, it's not really literal, it's reference- Bond is not of course a 15yo girl! And- I haven't seen any Bond movies for a long time, but as I remember, the Bond character doesn't do much "correct" shooting stance, etc. in any of them. He's casual, cool- not a sweating SWAT team guy. She would have looked ridiculous behaving like a real trained shooter "clearing" that mansion- while singing!
I'm surprised you didn't mention (but maybe on the agenda?) Blank Space, and Rains of Castamere- but, no acting in those. The first was for me, yes, sorry everybody, rather dull, but it was just a performance video, not in the way of music videos, generally. As for Rains- that did go over rather lead balloonish. Too literal, and, let's face it, pretty corny- certainly wouldn't appeal to any fans of Game of Thrones. but none of that can be laid at Jackie's door. Unless it was her unfortunate idea, to hire that shadow-box outfit.
Shall we do Coming Home, and Apocalypse?
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Post by rickolsen on Oct 24, 2016 11:10:11 GMT -5
When I originally watched the Safe And Sound video I had no idea what it was about. On Amazon they said it was about The Hunger Games and Rachel was a ghost. I had no clue so I watched the four Hunger Games movies. I didn't like the ending at all, but that's another subject.
When Primrose is killed it makes no sense. A bomb goes off close to Katniss as she is storming the palace. She is knocked unconscious. Time passes. She wakes up and sees Primrose kneeling among the dead and wounded. Primrose is a nurse. Another bomb goes off and she disappears. Nowhere in the movie is she a ghost. So, to me, the video had no relationship to the movie at all.
In Writing's On The Wall Jackie is too young for the part and so is Juliet. It makes the whole thing unbelievable. The same is true for the Apocalypse video. Jackie and her boyfriend look like they should be in eighth grade. She sings, "the fortress of our bed." It just does not compute.
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Post by agog on Oct 25, 2016 18:46:50 GMT -5
Good ol' Schrodinger. Lol you can see the good in things others can't. You're the type of fella that if you missed a Jackie concert due to torrential rains, you'd say: "well at least I had a great motorcycle ride." And don't say that's preposterous, my psychic abilities makes me very good at predicting past events.
I can't take time during the week to respond the way I want to, so see you Saturday or Sunday. In the meanwhile, if this is the videos thread, how about putting some up here <so I can prove I'm right>.
I liked blank space a lot. It had no pretensions of being anything other than two artists performing a song in a relaxed, off stage setting. I can't recall the name of that local young musician who accompanied Jackie but I remember being quite impressed with a his cover of a Bill Whithers song, he played all the instruments. I think Jackie should do many many more simple videos in that style. Local artists would appreciate the exposure, Jackie would be the draw. She could make a lot of inexpensive videos generating promo plus goodwill with the local starving artist community. Could also be done with local artists wherever she is going to perform. Could be win win for Jackie, for the local (but genuinely good) talent and for us fans and for the concert going public in the area. That's a win win win win.
Oh, a shout out to whichever mod transferred these posts to their own thread. I too noticed, as you did Schrodinger, that not too long after the reviews are posted and digested many concert threads tend to veer of topic with the mention of some interesting observation or factoid. The comments on the new subject in the old thread makes it a memory challenge to recall where they were posted.
I bet this will become an active thread. It's about Jackie and her videos. Sweet!
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Post by rickolsen on Oct 26, 2016 1:22:17 GMT -5
Oh, a shout out to whichever mod transferred these posts to their own thread. Agog, I must confess. In my role as Admin I created this thread. I think this is a serious topic that deserves it's own thread. There could be a lot to say about Jackie's videos and her acting. I think Jackie is too young to be in her videos if they are supposed to be telling the song's story. My favorite Jackie music video is Blank Space. It is just Jackie's beautiful voice and one guitar played beautifully by Nick Marzock. I pleaded with Lisa to do Desperado the same way, but she said no. In my opinion Juliet should be kept out of Jackie's music videos. She is too controversial. She is the reason Jackie lost so many fans. Keep her far away from anything having to do with Jackie's career. I think if Jackie wants to gain some young fans she needs to do some upbeat songs with maybe some dancers and a healthy back beat. Kids love that. They like action in their music videos. I think the biggest problem with Jackie's music videos is that there is a lack of vision. They are not well thought out. Most of them have no relation to the song. If you are trying to tell a story hire actors who can carry the story. I think Jackie's acting was good. She is just too young for the part.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 8:26:02 GMT -5
I admit, I didn't much care for many of her videos either. Blank Space as has been said is good due to it's simplicity, but most of the others, well... Each had a scene I liked, but overall, no.
I converted each of the vids to MP3s, and don't watch them very often, but I listen to the songs quite a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 10:11:48 GMT -5
Oh, a shout out to whichever mod transferred these posts to their own thread. Agog, I must confess. In my role as Admin I created this thread. I think this is a serious topic that deserves it's own thread. There could be a lot to say about Jackie's videos and her acting. I think Jackie is too young to be in her videos if they are supposed to be telling the song's story. My favorite Jackie music video is Blank Space. It is just Jackie's beautiful voice and one guitar played beautifully by Nick Marzock. I pleaded with Lisa to do Desperado the same way, but she said no. In my opinion Juliet should be kept out of Jackie's music videos. She is too controversial. She is the reason Jackie lost so many fans. Keep her far away from anything having to do with Jackie's career. I think if Jackie wants to gain some young fans she needs to do some upbeat songs with maybe some dancers and a healthy back beat. Kids love that. They like action in their music videos. I think the biggest problem with Jackie's music videos is that there is a lack of vision. They are not well thought out. Most of them have no relation to the song. If you are trying to tell a story hire actors who can carry the story. I think Jackie's acting was good. She is just too young for the part. Oh, dear. I have to disagree, more or less, on all counts! "I think Jackie is too young to be in her videos if they are supposed to be telling the song's story."
Well, Jackie is basically too young to be doing anything she has done in her career. Isn't that part of what makes her unique, startlingly different, what has captured so many amazed fans? And, the videos are not a simple telling-again of the song's (or the movie's) story- they are interpretations of the underlying message; as seen by Jackie, is my assumption- perhaps with help from other talented people; the final product a result of her input and discussion with them. In Writings on the Wall, for instance- right off, we see the startling image of Jackie dressed to reference the Bond characters- not literally- she's not made up to look like a man; that would of course be hopeless. She's definitely a young girl, in a referential costume. Would you rather see some male actor, simply re-playing some version of the action in the movie, while Jackie just sings in the background? How much "vision" would there be in that? "She is the reason Jackie lost so many fans."
(emphasis mine) Certainly she lost some for that- most probably from among older people set in their ideas; young people are, in general, more flexible. But to say "the" reason ignores the several other factors, which have been discussed here and elsewhere, that can be readily understood as contributing to the decline of her presence in the public mind since the peak of her exposure in mass media as the amazing prodigy child. Maybe you are right, that she would be better off without Juliet's "controversial" presence- but arguably, only to a minor degree. Controversy does not reduce public notice- rather the opposite. "Kids love that. They like action in their music videos." Maybe so, but then if they go to a concert expecting to see the same thing, they will be disappointed. And I for one, am not anxious to see Jackie on a stage among a crew of cavorting dancers. And given the paring down of her on-stage presentation, it doesn't look like some big-production show is the direction she is taking. I'll have to state again, I'm not a frequent visitor to the world of music video, but from what I have seen, videos attempting to say something are popular, as well as those featuring mere frenetic action- I don't think she's going after the Kpop fan. "...lack of vision. They are not well thought out. Most of them have no relation to the song. If you are trying to tell a story hire actors who can carry the story."
Disagree most strongly with this one, though it is the most subjective of your points. In my opinion, Jackie's videos are distinguished by interesting, thought-provoking vision, and are impressively well done, well edited and thought out- excepting the fairly straightforward, that is, not involving much concept, Think of Me and Blank Space, and setting aside for a moment the shadow-box adventure. And the actors in them all did well. But maybe we'll just have to differ on such subjective judgments. If I may venture into somewhat personal comment- and pardon me if I am off base in my thoughts; I don't intend disrespect here- you strike me as a fairly literal-minded person; one who likes things clearly defined, sharp delineations, absolute conclusions. But you do appreciate music- which doesn't have much to do with such qualities. Perhaps you can get more out of Jackie's visuals if you consider them more in the same way you absorb music- with more emphasis on mood, rather than literal narrative.
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Post by rickolsen on Oct 26, 2016 12:28:16 GMT -5
Schrodinger, I am not offended. When I watch Jackie's videos, except for Blank Space, I see a boring video with no relationship to the song. There are no hidden messages in any of them for me. The only thought they provoke is, "When will this be over."
When I spoke of Juliet I said she is the reason Jackie has lost a lot of fans. The simple fact is that she is. Jackie lost a lot of fans over the AOTS video. Then Jackie compounded her mistake by throwing her religious fan base under the bus on national TV. Juliet is an attention seeker who is trying to further her own agenda at Jackie's expense. She has done great harm to Jackie.
When I said Jackie's videos lack vision it is precisely because they have no bearing to the song. In the Apocalypse video Jackie is sitting on a bed out in the middle of nowhere. If there is a message in that I just don't see it. In my opinion Jackie should never have recorded the song.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 19:47:12 GMT -5
I'm of a bit different mind... I haven't heard Jackie sing anything I truly dislike. In fact she should record more and release them for sale! I like the song Apocalypse, and I like the scenes with Jackie and her "BF", but the mattress in the middle of the field, and the other abstract imagery did nothing for me (or the video IMO). As for Safe & Sound, I didn't think the video was meant to be a re-enactment of any particular part of any of the movies, but the overall video didn't really do anything for me. The song was great, and the video did remind me of the movies, but in reality was just lots of walking in the woods and a warehouse district. I guess I'm not enlightened enough to "get it", but I think the folks who decide these things don't really "get" what the customers want either. Perhaps they are quite proud of the result and the videos turned out just how they planned, but it appears they really didn't do much to garner new fans, increase sales, or promote Jackie.
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