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Post by lawrence on Apr 10, 2024 12:36:55 GMT -5
Admin's comment on Jackie's Smoking Gun video: "Jackie's competition has never been promoted on my forum".
Response in shoutbox: "Apparently Other Artists doesn't exist."
Admin's reply: "I've deleted Other Artists. I forgot it was there."
Statement of facts:
Admin decided to delete the topic, "Other Artists", and its contents. Consequently, in opposition to that decision, a member immediately created two threads under Subjects of Interest to Forum Members titled, "Other Artists -Giulia Falcone" and "Other Artists -Emma Kok". Subsequently a debate ensued which led to the creation of a poll, "Should We Have 'Other Artists' Thread?", under Controversial Issues. That poll currently shows, by a margin of 6 to 2, that proponents are winning the debate. The poll will close April 14, 2024. However, an "Other Artists Thread" had already been created and is active (in fact, 2 such threads are active).
The presumption, therefore, is that any artists (specifically young female singers) promoted prior to Admin's decision will continue to be promoted on this forum under the SOITFM category, effectively displacing the original deleted "Other Artists" category. And, Admin's decision will effectively have been nullified.
Conclusion at present: Not only have Jackie's competition been promoted on this forum (for many years), certain members have determined that they will continue to be promoted, albeit under a different category.
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Post by geb on Apr 10, 2024 19:49:16 GMT -5
Lawrence, you just do not seem to get it.
Your own thread compares Jackie's version of a song to what you call the "original artist" version (would not necessarily be true if a song was old enough or had been originally sung live, on-stage in a musical that had not been recorded).
In essence, you are not only promoting Jackie, but also promoting the other artist you choose to have Jackie compared to.
You may not see it that way, but when you show another artist's music, you happen to be promoting that artist whether or not your goal is to try to get people to believe Jackie's version is far superior to the other artist's version. You may actually cause a person to like the other artist's version more than Jackie's version. Each person has their own likes and dislikes. Their own beliefs. Their own feelings. To paraphrase what was pointed out by another on this forum, what you may find "fantastic" another may find "not so good". This is partially what being human is. Individuality.
And somehow you appear to believe that just because someone also likes another artist whom you deem to be "competition" to Jackie, that these people are somehow lesser fans of Jackie than what you believe yourself to be.
I like many, many artists. I like many, many painters. I like many, many movies. I like many, many other people and things. I do not try to rank them in order from number 1 on down. In fact, when asked, I have a difficult time ranking any of these because, to me, any one person/thing is really not the "best" all the time. Sometimes my mood, feelings, beliefs change, and likewise what I like can also change. As an example, as a child I hated cashew nuts, but now they are one of my favorite nuts to eat. In other words, my tastes changed and I came to appreciate, and like, something that I said no to at a younger age.
A then 15-year old Emma Kok's performance of Voilà during André Rieu's concert held during July 2023 in Maastricht, Netherland was truly fantastic and went worldwide viral. This does not take away anything from Jackie. This is just another artist who happened to do a great performance that millions around the world appreciated.
Giulia Falcone is now an 18-year old Italian singer who performs in Italian, French, English, and Spanish. Outside of being on The Voice France 2023, recorded when she was 16-years old, Giulia primarily does song covers although she has one song she wrote and published that was in English. Giulia sang The Blower's Daughter by Damien Rice during The Voice audition. She said this was the first time she had sung in front of an audience and admitted to being quite nervous. She did quite well and ended up getting some worldwide visibility. However, is Giulia "competition" to Jackie? Given that Giulia is presently still going to school and only occasionally publicly performing, that seems like an awfully long stretch.
Of course, if one actually is worried that Jackie's talent may not be as good as someone else, one may try to suppress others from being heard because of one's belief that these perceived "competitors" may cause some of the now nine people who bothered to vote in the Other Artists poll to suddenly drop being a fan of Jackie after spending years upon years supporting her to the extent of making postings of support for Jackie on an only password accessed Jackie fan forum.
For all I know, you may think that Jackie is the greatest artist that has ever lived, and feel so strongly about it that if anyone ever dares to mention anyone else, except you, naturally, then this person is somehow trying to diss Jackie and trying to promote others to try to take away the few Jackie fans who bother to come to this forum.
And as mentioned by another on this forum, Jackie's mother Lisa promoted Jackie on another artist's social media. And horror of horrors, Jackie herself mentions many artists whom she likes, happens to listen to, and covers. How dare Jackie "promote" these other artists by naming them in posts she makes on her social media, or in videos, or in publications.
It must have been heresy when a brief video of David Foster surfaced where he called a then 8-year old Angelina Jordan's performance of Dinah Washington's song What A Difference A Day Makes the best performance he had ever heard by a child Angelina's age. Or how dare David Foster have a picture taken with Angelina holding the book she wrote as a 9-year old, or later in another picture taken with 13-year old Angelina and singer Avril Lavigne, or being in videos working with 15-year old Angelina at the piano. How dare David like, and praise, and work with, another young female artist other than Jackie. How dare David occasionally associate with Angelina for over 7 years.
Jackie has publicly stated in the form of her song Pedestal (recorded for her Two Hearts album when Jackie was 16-years old) that even back then she DOES NOT like being put on a pedestal by people. Reality can disappear into a false world and this false world can come crashing down and reality then can become something not so pretty.
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Post by lawrence on Apr 11, 2024 0:07:48 GMT -5
Lawrence, you just do not seem to get it. Your own thread compares Jackie's version of a song to what you call the "original artist" version (would not necessarily be true if a song was old enough or had been originally sung live, on-stage in a musical that had not been recorded). In essence, you are not only promoting Jackie, but also promoting the other artist you choose to have Jackie compared to. You may not see it that way, but when you show another artist's music, you happen to be promoting that artist whether or not your goal is to try to get people to believe Jackie's version is far superior to the other artist's version. NO, geb. You dont get it! It's simple. I researched each song to learn who it was written/composed by, first recorded by, or first performed by. The intention is to show how Jackie's interpretations are either similar or different as a matter of interest, demonstrating Jackie's versatility. It's absurd to suggest I intend to promote Lucio Dalla, Bazzi, Harpo Marx, Don McLean, Barbra Streisand, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, Karen Carpenter, Martina McBride, Joni Mitchell, for example, or any Broadway performers, musical film actors, or musicians mentioned, much less "try to get people to believe Jackie's version is far superior....." Btw, "artists" refers to a variety of professions....writers, composers, actors, singers, Broadway performers, musicians, voice-over singers, etc. My Thread is under Subjects of Interest to Forum Members. I re-posted the first 4 comparisons thus far just as they were posted previously. If you have objections to either of them, take it up with Admin.
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Post by geb on Apr 11, 2024 6:23:49 GMT -5
Lawrence, you just do not seem to get it. Your own thread compares Jackie's version of a song to what you call the "original artist" version (would not necessarily be true if a song was old enough or had been originally sung live, on-stage in a musical that had not been recorded). In essence, you are not only promoting Jackie, but also promoting the other artist you choose to have Jackie compared to. You may not see it that way, but when you show another artist's music, you happen to be promoting that artist whether or not your goal is to try to get people to believe Jackie's version is far superior to the other artist's version. NO, geb. You dont get it! It's simple. I researched each song to learn who it was written/composed by, first recorded by, or first performed by. The intention is to show how Jackie's interpretations are either similar or different as a matter of interest, demonstrating Jackie's versatility. It's absurd to suggest I intend to promote Lucio Dalla, Bazzi, Harpo Marx, Don McLean, Barbra Streisand, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, Karen Carpenter, Martina McBride, Joni Mitchell, for example, or any Broadway performers, musical film actors, or musicians mentioned, much less "try to get people to believe Jackie's version is far superior....." Btw, "artists" refers to a variety of professions....writers, composers, actors, singers, Broadway performers, musicians, voice-over singers, etc. My Thread is under Subjects of Interest to Forum Members. I re-posted the first 4 comparisons thus far just as they were posted previously. If you have objections to either of them, take it up with Admin. I never had/have any objections to your comparative videos. I had said that I find comparative videos interesting. Post 5,000 of them if you like to do so. You are the one having issues with people that had posted in the Other Artists thread because you apparently believe these postings are somehow going to "hurt" Jackie because some of the music artists happen to be young females. To me, it is beyond ridiculous to think that posting information/music videos of another female artist in a thread that had been specifically created for posting about other artists that could be of interest to others, on a microscopic forum requiring login access to do much of anything, would have zilch effect on Jackie. From what I can tell Jackie follows 316 other accounts on Instagram that includes: -- Lindsey Stirling (who was on AGT 2010 with Jackie and does occasionally sing although she primarily plays the violin and works with tons of singers. Her song Shatter Me with singer Lzzy Hale went Platinum and was #1 on Billboard's Classical Digital Songs chart) -- Jasmine Amy Rogers (a young female singer) -- Merissa Beddows (young female singing impressionist who got inspired to sing when she saw Jackie on AGT 2010). Here is Merissa Beddows on AGT 2022 where her interview starts out with describing how hearing Jackie on AGT 2010 inspired her as a child to sing. Part of Jackie's audition performance is shown: -- Makena Hartlin (young female singer) -- Angelica Hale (hmmm, AGT 2017 runner-up, young female singer who I thought you believed was a "competitor" of Jackie, yet Jackie follows her, hmmm) -- Larisa Martínez (young female singer) -- Debbie Gibson (young female singer) -- Chloë Agnew (young female singer) -- Ashley Suppa (young female singer) -- Pia Toscano (young female singer) -- Jelayne (young female singer) -- Darci Lynne Farmer (young female singer-ventriloquist who won AGT 2017) -- Céline Dion (no introduction required) -- Kristin Chenoweth (actress-singer) -- Katharine McPhee Foster (David Foster latest wife and a singer who was the lead female role in Waitress, another Jackie favorite musical, plus did a ton of other stuff) -- Carly Rae Jepsen (young female singer) And Jackie follows lots of others on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, whatever. Looks like Jackie has no issues following people she likes, whether or not they are "competition" to her. Hmmm, Lawrence maybe you should do as Jackie, and not worry whether or not an artist may be a "competitor" or whatever you want to call any other young female artist who happens to also sing. And sorry Lawrence, by definition showing comparison music videos of two artists promotes both artists, no matter how famous either one happens to be. The comparison allows one to judge for themselves whose performance/rendition one personally likes over the other. And, of course, the comparison would show how Jackie approached the song versus how the other artist approached the song. And you did a classic taking-out-of-context quote leaving out the before phrasing of "whether or not your goal is to" and essentially tried to imply a specific claim that I NEVER said in totality. Most people that I know think of this technique as being underhanded. Gee, sorry you wanted more adjectives in front of the word "artist". Hmmm, I guess the fact that Jackie is primarily a singer carries no implied weight to you. Use of the word "artist" when discussing Jackie would seem to have an outrageously large implication of meaning a singer, or at a minimum someone in the music business, at least to me, and I think also to a lot of other people. I may have missed one or two as not being singers, or at least in the music business, and for those I apologize for the adjective oversight. If this really bothers you, please provide a reference list of use of the word "artist" that did not seem to imply a singer, or at least someone in the music business, and I can correct it for you. Must be a scratching fingernails upon a chalkboard type of thing for you. Sorry. I would hope that with Jackie showing no fear following young female singers herself, including at least one perceived "competitor", that we can stop this crazy discussion about blocking Other Artists thread postings, and just read what you want to read and ignore what you do not want to view.
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Post by lawrence on Apr 11, 2024 8:10:03 GMT -5
Nowhere in this debate did I say I object to "Other Artists". Search for it. I have often contributed to Other Artists with respect for the use it was intended. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it was meant to be a platform for promoting popular young female singers considered by the public and their fans to be in competition with Jackie, but that's what it had become, in my view.....Amira Willighagen, Anglica Hale, Connie Talbot, Angelina Jordan have have been promoted far more than any other artist under that topic (8 pages of updates, videos, promos and commentary on Angelina Jordan to date by geb alone)......I question the ethics of that. And I have right to do so. Look at the recovered list under Other Artists rlhamil posted in shout box. Furthermore I never said or implied that it "hurts" Jackie. Search for that too. It's only a presumption to justify one's rationalizations.
I have come here for information and discussion about Jackie and to contribute. It was said, "you don't have to read comments on other artists". I don't read them. Nothing against the singers. They have fan sites, and I'll go there if/when I'm interested in their activities. I don't appreciate having to continually by-pass yet another lengthy Angelina Jordan promo that appears on Recent Posts to get to something current and relevant to Jackie. It can't be ignored, particularly twice a day at times.
I have been misquoted, my statements misconstrued if not distorted, and I've been ridiculed and scoffed. One has to wonder why such contempt from fellow fans toward another because his only interest is what's relevant to promoting Jackie on this forum....Jackie Evancho Fans/Where Fans Gather.
You all got what you want. No poll necessary. Just a word from Admin....."I rethunk my decision. Other Artists is back". That clarifies nothing. No explanation for why he deleted Other Artists or why he re-established it. So, back to status quo.
It's not enjoyable for me here. I can promote Jackie elsewhere.
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Post by ghost on Apr 11, 2024 9:26:54 GMT -5
It's not enjoyable for me here. I can promote Jackie elsewhere. Don't go. I don't think anyone wants to see you go. You add a lot to this site. I think I can speak for everyone and say that we would hate to lose a great poster like you.
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Post by geb on Apr 11, 2024 9:29:39 GMT -5
Lawrence, hopefully you will continue to post, as I do generally like to read what you have to say. We disagree on one thing, but that is life, a continual, changing set of disagreements on one thing or the other, most of the time quite minor in the scheme of things.
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Post by Willyiam on Apr 11, 2024 10:19:20 GMT -5
Nowhere in this debate did I say I object to "Other Artists". Search for it. I have often contributed to Other Artists with respect for the use it was intended. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it was meant to be a platform for promoting popular young female singers considered by the public and their fans to be in competition with Jackie, but that's what it had become, in my view.....Amira Willighagen, Anglica Hale, Connie Talbot, Angelina Jordan have have been promoted far more than any other artist under that topic (8 pages of updates, videos, promos and commentary on Angelina Jordan to date by geb alone)......I question the ethics of that. And I have right to do so. Look at the recovered list under Other Artists rlhamil posted in shout box. Furthermore I never said or implied that it "hurts" Jackie. Search for that too. It's only a presumption to justify one's rationalizations. I have come here for information and discussion about Jackie and to contribute. It was said, "you don't have to read comments on other artists". I don't read them. Nothing against the singers. They have fan sites, and I'll go there if/when I'm interested in their activities. I don't appreciate having to continually by-pass yet another lengthy Angelina Jordan promo that appears on Recent Posts to get to something current and relevant to Jackie. It can't be ignored, particularly twice a day at times. I have been misquoted, my statements misconstrued if not distorted, and I've been ridiculed and scoffed. One has to wonder why such contempt from fellow fans toward another because his only interest is what's relevant to promoting Jackie on this forum....Jackie Evancho Fans/Where Fans Gather. You all got what you want. No poll necessary. Just a word from Admin....."I rethunk my decision. Other Artists is back". That clarifies nothing. No explanation for why he deleted Other Artists or why he re-established it. So, back to status quo. It's not enjoyable for me here. I can promote Jackie elsewhere. lawrence: If you no longer receive enjoyment from reading and posting on this site, then, by all means, go elsewhere to seek the enjoyment you lack here!! But, IMO, with your posts, you have added a sense of maturity that will be sorely missed, and, if I may add, you should not exit simply due to an expected loss! Accepting a loss is also a sign of maturity!!
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Post by ghost on Apr 12, 2024 13:16:11 GMT -5
I have been misquoted, my statements misconstrued if not distorted, and I've been ridiculed and scoffed. One has to wonder why such contempt from fellow fans toward another because his only interest is what's relevant to promoting Jackie on this forum....Jackie Evancho Fans/Where Fans Gather.You all got what you want. No poll necessary. Just a word from Admin....."I rethunk my decision. Other Artists is back". That clarifies nothing. No explanation for why he deleted Other Artists or why he re-established it. So, back to status quo. It's not enjoyable for me here. I can promote Jackie elsewhere. I'm very upset about this. I thought this site was better about something like this and that members treaded other fans better, I guess not. I'm very disappointed, not only that we lost a member like Lawrence, but also with the way he was treated.
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