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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 14:35:17 GMT -5
Yes or no?
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Post by bgstar on Jan 11, 2023 17:02:52 GMT -5
It depends on your definition of Classical. Based on my definition of Classical. Jackie is not a Classical singer, she is a Classical Crossover singer who sings Classical songs and other songs Classically. Are Sarah Brightman or Barbra Streisand Classical singers?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 0:24:21 GMT -5
It depends on your definition of Classical. Based on my definition of Classical. Jackie is not a Classical singer, she is a Classical Crossover singer who sings Classical songs and other songs Classically. Are Sarah Brightman or Barbra Streisand Classical singers?Answer: Yes, they are. Please distinguish between classical singer and classical artist.
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Post by lawrence on Jan 12, 2023 10:20:17 GMT -5
Are Sarah Brightman or Barbra Streisand Classical singers? If the criteria for describing one a "classical singer" is having been classically trained, then Barbra Streisand is no more a classical singer than Jackie is. I've found no evidence in interviews or articles that Barbra Streisand has been classically trained, or in fact having had any professional vocal training at all. Like Jackie, she is a "natural singer" who sings whatever she chooses how she chooses to sing it. Here's what she says about singing lessons in an interview, "Barbra Streisand makes 'Partners' of confidence and doubt": Begins at 19:20
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 10:52:35 GMT -5
Some things about classical singing. Vowels: In classical music, high notes are more likely to be sung on the vowel "a", "o" or ""u". They are fuller and rounder in sound. A raised soft palate and the rather low larynx provide the full, typically classical sound. Location: In classical music you sing a lot in the head voice. Passagio: The transitions between chest and head voice must not be audible, a uniform sound in all positions is sought. Only in classical music: Bel Canto, a vocal technique that means "beautiful singing" and originated as a classical singing style in Italy in the 16th century. Characteristic features include the softness of the tones and a balanced, agile voice in all registers, which is therefore able to embellish the singing with coloratura, for example. A classical singer doesn't necessarily need training, but it would be better.
By the way, Barbra is just like Jackie a mezzo soprano.
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Post by lawrence on Feb 4, 2023 15:47:54 GMT -5
Jackie is not a Classical singer, she is a Classical Crossover singer who sings Classical songs... A classical singer doesn't necessarily need training, but it would be better. "Classical crossover broadly encompasses both classical music that has become popularized and a wide variety of popular music forms performed in a classical manner or by classical artists. It can also refer to collaborations between classical and popular performers, as well as music that blends elements of classical music (including operatic and symphonic) with popular music (including pop, rock, middle of the road, and Latin, among other types). Pop vocalists and musicians, opera singers, classical instrumentalists, and occasionally rock groups primarily perform classical crossover." -Wikipedia (Crossover Music).... Placido Domingo for example, singing "Perhaps Love" with John Denver who wrote the song (below). There are many examples of classical singers recording/performing pop songs therefore considered classical crossover. Jackie has performed with classical singers. Though Jackie is not a trained classical singer, classical crossover is the category she has identified herself with since the beginning of her career, and recently, as evidenced by the content of her albums which have included classical songs and pop songs from different eras, thus she being called a classical crossover singer......It also encompasses Broadway: "Broadway singers, other than simply restricting themselves to musical theater repertoire, are like any other vocalist —musical theater uses a variety of genres of music, from opera-like singing to pop, gospel, rock, even rap...." -C. Lang, Broadway pianist/singer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2023 15:57:08 GMT -5
Jackie is not a Classical singer, she is a Classical Crossover singer who sings Classical songs... A classical singer doesn't necessarily need training, but it would be better. "Classical crossover broadly encompasses both classical music that has become popularized and a wide variety of popular music forms performed in a classical manner or by classical artists. It can also refer to collaborations between classical and popular performers, as well as music that blends elements of classical music (including operatic and symphonic) with popular music (including pop, rock, middle of the road, and Latin, among other types). Pop vocalists and musicians, opera singers, classical instrumentalists, and occasionally rock groups primarily perform classical crossover." -Wikipedia (Crossover Music).... Placido Domingo for example, singing "Perhaps Love" with John Denver who wrote the song (below). There are many examples of classical singers recording/performing pop songs therefore considered classical crossover. Jackie has performed with classical singers. Though Jackie is not a trained classical singer, classical crossover is the category she has identified herself with since the beginning of her career, and recently, as evidenced by the content of her albums which have included classical songs and pop songs from different eras, thus she being called a classical crossover singer......It also encompasses Broadway: "Broadway singers, other than simply restricting themselves to musical theater repertoire, are like any other vocalist —musical theater uses a variety of genres of music, from opera-like singing to pop, gospel, rock, even rap...." -C. Lang, Broadway pianist/singer. Is Jackie a classical singer? Yes or no. The rest of your statement is nonsense as usual.
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Post by lawrence on Feb 8, 2023 11:02:14 GMT -5
"Is Jackie a classical singer, yes or no?"
As a singer, Jackie is whatever anyone thinks she is.....an opera singer, a classical singer, a pop singer, a Broadway singer, even a Christian singer.. She's all those. Yet, she is neither of them, just an extraordinarily gifted and versatile, natural vocalist who can sing any genre that inspires her and do it exceptionally well. She's adventuresome, experimental, fiercely independent and courageous, not afraid to test her capabilities or to cross boundaries, and not one to be pigeon-holed into any particular definition as an artist. She has identified herself with classical crossover music which is inclusive of classical, pop and other genres, not limited to any one of them. As she said on Access Hollywood, "I don't want to be stuck to one genre". If you think she is a classical singer, then for you she is....."in the eye of the beholder", keeping in mind that she is not classically trained.
In her own words:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2023 12:35:57 GMT -5
"Is Jackie a classical singer, yes or no?" As a singer, Jackie is whatever anyone thinks she is.....an opera singer, a classical singer, a pop singer, a Broadway singer, even a Christian singer.. She's all those. Yet, she is neither of them, just an extraordinarily gifted and versatile, natural vocalist who can sing any genre that inspires her and do it exceptionally well. She's adventuresome, experimental, fiercely independent and courageous, not afraid to test her capabilities or to cross boundaries, and not one to be pigeon-holed into any particular definition as an artist. She has identified herself with classical crossover music which is inclusive of classical, pop and other genres, not limited to any one of them. As she said on Access Hollywood, "I don't want to be stuck to one genre". If you think she is a classical singer, then for you she is....."in the eye of the beholder", keeping in mind that she is not classically trained. In her own words: Nonsense as always. It's not about whether Jackie can sing classical, pop or Christian songs etc. I can do that. Anyone who can sing can do that. "Jackie is whatever anyone thinks she is." So I think Jackie is a tiger plum tomato, so she is. I'll go straight to Instagram and see if it works. But of course it is logical that you think so. It's a simple question. Is Jackie a classical singer?
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Post by jcas on Feb 10, 2023 9:12:32 GMT -5
When you Google "Classical Singers", you won't find Jackie among them now or possibly ever, because she doesn't in any way shape or form belong on the list that includes Maria Calas, Renee Fleming, Kathleen Battle, Marion Anderson etc. etc. etc.. The list of female "classical singers" is a very long one. All of them perform(ed) lead or secondary roles in operas during their careers. Jackie's never performed or had any role in a musical theatre production of any kind, let alone an opera. During her 12 year career she sang 4 arias from operas out of the more than 100 covers of songs from other genres: from religious hymns to light rock (Blank Spaces comes to mind). But if the late great "classical singer", Marion Anderson, for instance, had tried singing Cole Porter's, Let's Misbehave, or Let's Do It for an audience in her day, would she have been considered and labeled a Classical Crossover singer because of it?
To me, the simple answer to the question first posed here is .... NO. Jackie cannot and should not be considered a "classical singer". I also think it's been long unfortunate that she's been mired in the nebulous "classical crossover" category. I last saw Jackie perform live when she was 13. I first saw and heard her on YouTube like many others. Because she scheduled a concert near where I lived then, I ordered tickets for my wife and I months in advance because based on what I'd seen on YouTube, I figured her concert would be a sell out. I was correct. 5000 packed an outdoor ampitheater and many stood outside it and along its perimeter at Chautauqua, NY to see and hear her. Based on the number of standing ovations she received, there could no doubt why she attracted that many to her performance. But there was nothing special about the songs she was singing. Some like Some Enchanted Evening had been around for over 50 years. It was the way she sang them. In my opinion, and I think most others in that audience more purely beautiful than anyone had heard them sung before. She reached right into many hearts in that audience, including mine, and made them glow with delight. I saw tears flowing from more than some around me at what they were witnessing. So. Is Jackie a "classical crossover" artist/singer? I can tell you, no one in that audience gave a hoot what music critics/reviewers/publicists had labeled her, including ridiculously ... "the world's youngest opera singer". I and most everyone in that audience were hearing and watching something and someone very, truly indefinably unique. Her confidence; her poise; her focus; her ability to connect with her audience; that voice at 13yo .... a captivating, stunning little package of unreal talent. Someone who most certainly defied labeling or categorizing then ... and I think ..... even now as she's struggling to find a good road forward from a very important intersection in her life and career.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 1:39:50 GMT -5
When you Google "Classical Singers", you won't find Jackie among them now or possibly ever, because she doesn't in any way shape or form belong on the list that includes Maria Calas, Renee Fleming, Kathleen Battle, Marion Anderson etc. etc. etc.. The list of female "classical singers" is a very long one. All of them perform(ed) lead or secondary roles in operas during their careers. Jackie's never performed or had any role in a musical theatre production of any kind, let alone an opera. During her 12 year career she sang 4 arias from operas out of the more than 100 covers of songs from other genres: from religious hymns to light rock (Blank Spaces comes to mind). But if the late great "classical singer", Marion Anderson, for instance, had tried singing Cole Porter's, Let's Misbehave, or Let's Do It for an audience in her day, would she have been considered and labeled a Classical Crossover singer because of it? To me, the simple answer to the question first posed here is .... NO. Jackie cannot and should not be considered a "classical singer". I also think it's been long unfortunate that she's been mired in the nebulous "classical crossover" category. I last saw Jackie perform live when she was 13. I first saw and heard her on YouTube like many others. Because she scheduled a concert near where I lived then, I ordered tickets for my wife and I months in advance because based on what I'd seen on YouTube, I figured her concert would be a sell out. I was correct. 5000 packed an outdoor ampitheater and many stood outside it and along its perimeter at Chautauqua, NY to see and hear her. Based on the number of standing ovations she received, there could no doubt why she attracted that many to her performance. But there was nothing special about the songs she was singing. Some like Some Enchanted Evening had been around for over 50 years. It was the way she sang them. In my opinion, and I think most others in that audience more purely beautiful than anyone had heard them sung before. She reached right into many hearts in that audience, including mine, and made them glow with delight. I saw tears flowing from more than some around me at what they were witnessing. So. Is Jackie a "classical crossover" artist/singer? I can tell you, no one in that audience gave a hoot what music critics/reviewers/publicists had labeled her, including ridiculously ... "the world's youngest opera singer". I and most everyone in that audience were hearing and watching something and someone very, truly indefinably unique. Her confidence; her poise; her focus; her ability to connect with her audience; that voice at 13yo .... a captivating, stunning little package of unreal talent. Someone who most certainly defied labeling or categorizing then ... and I think ..... even now as she's struggling to find a good road forward from a very important intersection in her life and career. My question is, is Jackie a classical singer, not was Jackie a classical singer. What Jackie was as a child is irrelevant.
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Post by jcas on Feb 11, 2023 5:40:53 GMT -5
"My question is, is Jackie a classical singer, not was Jackie a classical singer. What Jackie was as a child is irrelevant."
Looks like you completely missed reading or somehow overlooked the first two paragraphs of my answer. Paragraph 2 contained a very direct, simple and correct answer to your "question". i.e. "NO". The first paragraph you didn't read or understand either explained that big ..."NO" ...and why she isn't now and wasn't ever. My question to you is why in H does it matter what pigeonhole she's supposed to belong in and to? IMHO, it's "irrelevant" now as it should have been when she was a child and at any other point in her 12 year career, which was the point of my third paragraph which you apparently didn't understand, barely read, or simply don't agree with.
Jackie, imho, has been a moving target when it comes to labeling and pinning down what she does and is for her whole career which I've closely followed for the past 10 years. It's one of those fascinating things about her to me, and many thousands of her fans who don't give a rip about what critics/reviewers/publicists label her. We just know and love what and how this young lady sings for us and that we can chose from an amazing number of genres in which she's fluent and has brilliantly mastered to enjoy ... or not. i.e. I don't care for her latest album, Carousel of Time. But I love The Debut and consider it among her best. Can't wait for what she'll try next. It's really as simple as: "she a singer.". One of the best.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 7:48:54 GMT -5
"My question is, is Jackie a classical singer, not was Jackie a classical singer. What Jackie was as a child is irrelevant." Looks like you completely missed reading or somehow overlooked the first two paragraphs of my answer. Paragraph 2 contained a very direct, simple and correct answer to your "question". i.e. "NO". The first paragraph you didn't read or understand either explained that big ..."NO" ...and why she isn't now and wasn't ever. My question to you is why in H does it matter what pigeonhole she's supposed to belong in and to? IMHO, it's "irrelevant" now as it should have been when she was a child and at any other point in her 12 year career, which was the point of my third paragraph which you apparently didn't understand, barely read, or simply don't agree with. Jackie, imho, has been a moving target when it comes to labeling and pinning down what she does and is for her whole career which I've closely followed for the past 10 years. It's one of those fascinating things about her to me, and many thousands of her fans who don't give a rip about what critics/reviewers/publicists label her. We just know and love what this young lady sings for us and that we can chose from an amazing number of genres in which she's fluent and has brilliantly mastered to enjoy ... or not. i.e. I don't care for her latest album, Carousel of Time. But I love The Debut and consider it among her best. Can't wait for what she'll try next. It's really as simple as: "she a singer.". One of the best. Of course I read the NO. And only that would have been necessary as an answer. The rest is unfortunately wrong. A classical singer does not have to have sung in an opera or musical. There are thousands of classical singers who have not. Classical singers also sing in choirs, oratorios etc. Reality always requires a definition. With a statement "..... sings beautifully or ..... is a singer" you won't get far. Your story about your experiences with young Jackie is unimportant has nothing to do with the question. Your 2 paragraph is the typical OTT ramblings with no value especially for this question. I'm not interested in that.
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Post by jcas on Feb 11, 2023 8:26:21 GMT -5
"Of course I read the NO. And only that would have been necessary as an answer. The rest is unfortunately wrong. A classical singer does not have to have sung in an opera or musical. There are thousands of classical singers who have not. Classical singers also sing in choirs, oratorios etc.
Reality always requires a definition. With a statement "..... sings beautifully or ..... is a singer" you won't get far.
Your story about your experiences with young Jackie is unimportant has nothing to do with the question.
Your 2 paragraph is the typical OTT ramblings with no value especially for this question. I'm not interested in that."
So, what "oratorio" or "choir" has Jackie ever participated in or been a member? None. In other words, what connection to the classical part of classical crossover other than having sung 4 arias out of over 100 songs from other genres has Jackie ever had during her 12 year career. My "story" has everything to do with the question. Your a--l retentive obsession, however, with categorizing her is just plain weird. To enjoy and just know what she does doesn't need a forensic type analysis like yours. When she sings something from Phantom, I and I hope most of her intelligent fans know what genre it belongs to and that fact is totally irrelevant to our enjoyment of what and how she sings songs from it. I don't need somebody to tell me that Chuck Berry was a rock n roll singer to know it. I've heard him sing many times. I know he is and what he sings. It's really that simple. What's "OTT" is your obsessive need to tell and try to convince everyone what you think you know in ridiculously "irrelevant" detail. How do I know that's true? Because I've seen most of your posts here. They're essentially all the same. Gratuitously, irrelevantly, aggressively about you, not Jackie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2023 8:48:28 GMT -5
"Of course I read the NO. And only that would have been necessary as an answer. The rest is unfortunately wrong. A classical singer does not have to have sung in an opera or musical. There are thousands of classical singers who have not. Classical singers also sing in choirs, oratorios etc. Reality always requires a definition. With a statement "..... sings beautifully or ..... is a singer" you won't get far. Your story about your experiences with young Jackie is unimportant has nothing to do with the question. Your 2 paragraph is the typical OTT ramblings with no value especially for this question. I'm not interested in that." So, what "oratorio" or "choir" has Jackie ever participated in or been a member? None. In other words, what connection to the classical part of classical crossover other than having sung 4 arias out of over 100 songs from other genres has Jackie ever had during her 12 year career. My "story" has everything to do with the question. Your a--l retentive obsession, however, with categorizing her is just plain weird. To enjoy and just know what she does doesn't need a forensic type analysis like yours. When she sings something from Phantom, I and I hope most of her intelligent fans know what genre it belongs to and that fact is totally irrelevant to their enjoyment of what and how she sings songs from it. I don't need somebody to tell me that Chuck Berry was a rock n roll singer to know it. I've heard him sing many times. I know he is and what he sings. It's really that simple. What's "OTT" is your obsessive need to tell and try to convince everyone what with you think you know in ridiculously "irrelevant" detail. How do I know that's true? Because I've seen most of your posts here. They're essentially all the same. Gratuitously, irrelevantly about you, not Jackie. Jackie sang the following classical songs. Ave Maria (Bach) Ave Maria (Schubert) Ave Maria (Caccini) Attesa Dark Waltz Dormi Jesu Guardian Angel Nessum dorma O mio babbino caro ombra mai fu Panis angelicus The lord's prayer vocalise in addition, there are some that are more likely to be classified as CC. That's what a Jackie fan should know. OTT is what you and some others are doing here, these people can hardly comment without praising Jackie.
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