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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 21:57:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you meant by your post, so maybe you could clarify it. I have seen that blog so will not revisit it. Not to put words in your mouth, but I think you misunderstood me. My wife says that I confuse people with my style of writing. I don't conscientiously critique music when I'm listening, but I also don't ignore major flaws when my ears pick them up. Take that MT Choir version of DB. First few times I heard it, they brought me to tears. Then after I got over the initial rush, I noticed this pain in my ears. The guy playing the penny whistle was way too loud (too close to Mike or sound engineer screwed up) and it was physically causing me pain. So I don't enjoy it as much anymore. Then I noticed that choir was not together on their c and t on last "come to me". If you have ever sung in a choir, you know that's a big no no, lol. Especially for a normally top notch choir like MTC. Let me illustrate what I was trying to say and I hope I don't cross any boundaries. You can Google the fact that some people can experience an O.... without touch. I'm not one of those, haha! Nor am I interested in trying, lol! But, I can experience a lesser degree of intense pleasure when listening to certain music. I don't seek it. It just comes to me at unexpected circumstances. IOW, I'm not a casual listener nor do I listen to music with the idea that I'm going to critique it. My list of Danny Boy covers on YouTube was an exception and I realized my folly soon after I started, lol! I did learn something from it, though. Does my rambling make an sense? Jackie's DB touched me and I felt like I had to share that. I did. Now I'm done. What I don't understand is all the squashing of my passion like I had committed some crime, lol? I get that from my S.O. sigh🙄 For far too many here, "the squashing" of fans passion and pleasure of enjoying Jackie's amazing gifts is the only reason they are here. LOL. Musher Gushers vs. Masher Squashers. (pity it doesn't rhyme)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 12:52:07 GMT -5
I didn't say your post. I said the post from the guy that wrote the post in the link. Dr. Mercury. The only reason I posted the link was to say you are not alone with your excellent ear. A flat string doesn't bother some. My mention of critique was to say I do not critique. Â
No squashing either. Your passion is contagious. The only squash I do is batter sliced squash with corn meal and fry it.I decided to revisit that site and read through a lot of the comments. I noticed Ehkzu had posted and was already familiar with him, having read his wondrous review of DWM before downloading it. I also have read his blogs on Jackie. I also realized that I needed to clarify my own opinion of my sense of hearing. I would not rank it as high as the author or others in the comments. In a scale of 0...10, with 10 being perfect pitch sensitivity and 5 being the general public, I would rank myself a 7 or 8 tops. I would guess that Jackie is a 10. I'm glad that other fans can hear what I hear in Jackie's Danny Boy. I was just surprised that no one seemed to be making a big deal about her timbre in this song. Maybe it has already been done and I just missed it. I wasn't trying to toot my own horn (pun intended), just excited to share what I heard and how compelling it was to me to the point of obsession. I think I'm over that now. Haha!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 14:06:24 GMT -5
You are very obsessed over that song Danny Boy. Where you hear a moving song, I hear blah! Love and hate are both blind. Love is blind to what? If I could use only one word, I think I would go with faults, since we all have them and need love to overcome them. It's not that love says those faults are ok, it's that love looks beyond the faults and sees and meets the needs. Hate is blind to truth, which includes true inner beauty. Your statement above is not completely true. You left out the word, "Jackie's". And yes, it makes a big difference. When I listened to close to 30 different covers of DB on YouTube (not recommended), only 2 of them compelled me to listen more than once and a few I couldn't even get through once. I listened to Celtic Woman twice and that was it. Not compelled beyond that. The MT Choir brought me to tears until the penny whistle got to me after a few listens and now I MIGHT listen to it on occasion. I don't listen to Jackie's DB as much anymore, but when I do I am ALWAYS compelled to listen to the end. The history of Londonderry Air is interesting and shows that most people would disagree with your contempt for the song. web.archive.org/web/20050930170319/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/londonderryair/I have a strong dislike for a "song" Jackie sings on my favorite album of hers. But I listen to it on a regular basis and actually enjoy it. It's "Vocalise". I normally like Rachmaninoff but not this piece. I would constantly skip over it. Finally, one day I couldn't take it anymore, lol. I wanted some new Jackie music. So what I did was to concentrate and see if I could hear her sliding up or down to a note. It was amazing to hear her float from note to note without any searching of pitch. Then I would concentrate on her use of vibrato. Eventually it got to the point where it became compelling and I never skip it when playing the album. And yet, I still dislike the musical composition. Jackie's beauty in voice and delivery overcame my "hatred" for the "song". In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I'm sorry that your contempt for the song keeps you from enjoying what she did, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 😀😉
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Post by rob49 on Nov 27, 2017 14:25:06 GMT -5
You are very obsessed over that song Danny Boy. Where you hear a moving song, I hear blah! Love and hate are both blind. Love is blind to what? If I could use only one word, I think I would go with faults, since we all have them and need love to overcome them. It's not that love says those faults are ok, it's that love looks beyond the faults and sees and meets the needs. Hate is blind to truth, which includes true inner beauty. Your statement above is not completely true. You left out the word, "Jackie's". And yes, it makes a big difference. When I listened to close to 30 different covers of DB on YouTube (not recommended), only 2 of them compelled me to listen more than once and a few I couldn't even get through once. I listened to Celtic Woman twice and that was it. Not compelled beyond that. The MT Choir brought me to tears until the penny whistle got to me after a few listens and now I MIGHT listen to it on occasion. I don't listen to Jackie's DB as much anymore, but when I do I am ALWAYS compelled to listen to the end. The history of Londonderry Air is interesting and shows that most people would disagree with your contempt for the song. web.archive.org/web/20050930170319/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/londonderryair/I have a strong dislike for a "song" Jackie sings on my favorite album of hers. But I listen to it on a regular basis and actually enjoy it. It's "Vocalise". I normally like Rachmaninoff but not this piece. I would constantly skip over it. Finally, one day I couldn't take it anymore, lol. I wanted some new Jackie music. So what I did was to concentrate and see if I could hear her sliding up or down to a note. It was amazing to hear her float from note to note without any searching of pitch. Then I would concentrate on her use of vibrato. Eventually it got to the point where it became compelling and I never skip it when playing the album. And yet, I still dislike the musical composition. Jackie's beauty in voice and delivery overcame my "hatred" for the "song". In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I'm sorry that your contempt for the song keeps you from enjoying what she did, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 😀😉 Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 15:34:22 GMT -5
Love and hate are both blind. Love is blind to what? If I could use only one word, I think I would go with faults, since we all have them and need love to overcome them. It's not that love says those faults are ok, it's that love looks beyond the faults and sees and meets the needs. Hate is blind to truth, which includes true inner beauty. Your statement above is not completely true. You left out the word, "Jackie's". And yes, it makes a big difference. When I listened to close to 30 different covers of DB on YouTube (not recommended), only 2 of them compelled me to listen more than once and a few I couldn't even get through once. I listened to Celtic Woman twice and that was it. Not compelled beyond that. The MT Choir brought me to tears until the penny whistle got to me after a few listens and now I MIGHT listen to it on occasion. I don't listen to Jackie's DB as much anymore, but when I do I am ALWAYS compelled to listen to the end. The history of Londonderry Air is interesting and shows that most people would disagree with your contempt for the song. web.archive.org/web/20050930170319/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/londonderryair/I have a strong dislike for a "song" Jackie sings on my favorite album of hers. But I listen to it on a regular basis and actually enjoy it. It's "Vocalise". I normally like Rachmaninoff but not this piece. I would constantly skip over it. Finally, one day I couldn't take it anymore, lol. I wanted some new Jackie music. So what I did was to concentrate and see if I could hear her sliding up or down to a note. It was amazing to hear her float from note to note without any searching of pitch. Then I would concentrate on her use of vibrato. Eventually it got to the point where it became compelling and I never skip it when playing the album. And yet, I still dislike the musical composition. Jackie's beauty in voice and delivery overcame my "hatred" for the "song". In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I'm sorry that your contempt for the song keeps you from enjoying what she did, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 😀😉 Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed. Thank you for your overly kind words, but I would be careful about gushing, lol! I realized the foolishness of my YouTube comparisons when the thought came to me, "Steve, do you honestly think you're going to find someone that comes close to what Jackie did? A voice that simultaneously sounds like a woman, a girl, a boy, and even a trumpet." I had never heard anything like that before. I would actually like to see someone do a wave form analysis of her voice in this song, especially when she and Chris are in unison on Melody but then become one in tonality such that you cannot hear him in a couple places irrespective of the volume.
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Post by rob49 on Nov 27, 2017 15:57:08 GMT -5
Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed. Thank you for your overly kind words, but I would be careful about gushing, lol! I realized the foolishness of my YouTube comparisons when the thought came to me, "Steve, do you honestly think you're going to find someone that comes close to what Jackie did? A voice that simultaneously sounds like a woman, a girl, a boy, and even a trumpet." I had never heard anything like that before. I would actually like to see someone do a wave form analysis of her voice in this song, especially when she and Chris are in unison on Melody but then become one in tonality such that you cannot hear him in a couple places irrespective of the volume. Actually there were at least a couple of fairly detailed, in-depth wave form analysis done within a year or so of Jackie's AGT performances. They were very technical and found some very amazing and even unique matters. My poor memory can only recall that I was amazed at the findings they revealed as I reviewed them. One of the studies was done by a big fan of Jackie's, I'm not sure if the other study was by a fan or not. There has to others here with better memories than mine.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 15:57:17 GMT -5
Love and hate are both blind. Love is blind to what? If I could use only one word, I think I would go with faults, since we all have them and need love to overcome them. It's not that love says those faults are ok, it's that love looks beyond the faults and sees and meets the needs. Hate is blind to truth, which includes true inner beauty. Your statement above is not completely true. You left out the word, "Jackie's". And yes, it makes a big difference. When I listened to close to 30 different covers of DB on YouTube (not recommended), only 2 of them compelled me to listen more than once and a few I couldn't even get through once. I listened to Celtic Woman twice and that was it. Not compelled beyond that. The MT Choir brought me to tears until the penny whistle got to me after a few listens and now I MIGHT listen to it on occasion. I don't listen to Jackie's DB as much anymore, but when I do I am ALWAYS compelled to listen to the end. The history of Londonderry Air is interesting and shows that most people would disagree with your contempt for the song. web.archive.org/web/20050930170319/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/londonderryair/I have a strong dislike for a "song" Jackie sings on my favorite album of hers. But I listen to it on a regular basis and actually enjoy it. It's "Vocalise". I normally like Rachmaninoff but not this piece. I would constantly skip over it. Finally, one day I couldn't take it anymore, lol. I wanted some new Jackie music. So what I did was to concentrate and see if I could hear her sliding up or down to a note. It was amazing to hear her float from note to note without any searching of pitch. Then I would concentrate on her use of vibrato. Eventually it got to the point where it became compelling and I never skip it when playing the album. And yet, I still dislike the musical composition. Jackie's beauty in voice and delivery overcame my "hatred" for the "song". In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I'm sorry that your contempt for the song keeps you from enjoying what she did, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. 😀😉 Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed. .... and guess what Rob, I still hear blah, even as good as Jackie sings. I have a hunch I'm not alone in that opinion in regards to DB. Leave it to you to overblow one opinion that I have over one song that I don't care for.
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Post by rickolsen on Nov 27, 2017 16:11:35 GMT -5
In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, but I must tell you. Elvis did a brilliant version of Danny Boy. It was recorded a year before he died, and his voice wasn't at it's best, but it was every bit Elvis. You said it made you laugh. I knew then that you don't know what you are talking about. You claim to hear four voices in Jackie's Danny Boy. I hear one and it is not her best. For that you need to listen to OMBC, Lovers, Ombra Mai Fu, The Lord's Prayer, and Mi Macherai. All are on Dream With Me. I know you said that Awakening is your favorite album, but Dream With Me is in every way superior to that. There should not be a trumpet in Danny Boy. It is very annoying. You claim you hear Jackie sounding like a trumpet. This is absurd. Jackie can no more sound like a trumpet than a trombone can sound like a violin.
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Post by rob49 on Nov 27, 2017 16:14:20 GMT -5
Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed. .... and guess what Rob, I still hear blah, even as good as Jackie sings. I have a hunch I'm not alone in that opinion in regards to DB. Leave it to you to overblow one opinion that I have over one song that I don't care for. cer, obviously you are not understanding what is being said. A person can HATE a song, so much they REFUSE to listen to it. But any person who CAN hear the quality of a world class vocal artist, will hear those qualities even when that vocalist is singing a song they HATE. They can still HATE the song, but they WILL also hear the quality of the voice, NOT "blah". That is as simple as I can explain it. If you are still unable to comprehended it, then problem solved. You do not have the ear required to truly hear Jackie's unique vocal talents. And that is fine because a large MAJORITY of people in the world don't have the ear to truly hear Jackie's unique vocal talents . And I am fine with anyone HATING any song they want to.
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Post by rob49 on Nov 27, 2017 16:35:51 GMT -5
Great response glt, I would have liked to gave you two thumbs up with the WOW, but that was not an available option. If cer truly hears "blah" when he listens to Jackie's masterful rendition of Danny Boy, well then Jackie's unique voice, her amazing control of it, her interpretive genius, and unmatched emotional delivery, of NOT only Danny Boy, but also the rendition of EVERY song she performs, is wasted on him. Which is very sad indeed. Thank you for your overly kind words, but I would be careful about gushing, lol! I realized the foolishness of my YouTube comparisons when the thought came to me, "Steve, do you honestly think you're going to find someone that comes close to what Jackie did? A voice that simultaneously sounds like a woman, a girl, a boy, and even a trumpet." I had never heard anything like that before. I would actually like to see someone do a wave form analysis of her voice in this song, especially when she and Chris are in unison on Melody but then become one in tonality such that you cannot hear him in a couple places irrespective of the volume. Here is a link an article with a little information on waveform study of Jackie's voice. jackiecentral.com/proj/jackieeffect/jackieeffect.htmlWaveform Analysis Waveform analysis has identified an unusual double harmonic which may be associated with the effect. From an article by DLDEPREZ : "Evancho is able to produce a perfectly symmetrical waveform, which is summating, transposed on top of one another, causing a higher amplitude audio signal at a specific tone, or combination of tones that exceeds a psychological/ physiological threshold, resulting in the listener being overwhelmed with emotion." Full article here This analysis by Patricio illustrates the unusual helical nature of Jackie's waveforms. Theta Waves Another theory based on waveform analysis suggests that Jackie's vibrato matches the frequency of Theta waves, human brain waves that become dominant when we feel emotional, relaxed, daydreamy or unfocused. Here is an analysis by Luta: "I analyzed Jackie's vibrato/tremolo with software, the frequency of her vibrato/tremolo is around 6 Hz (with subtle variations in frequency and intensity). This is in the range of Theta brain waves (4-7.5Hz) Theta brain waves are present during deep meditation and light sleep, including the all-important REM dream state. It is the realm of your subconsciousness, and is where you experience vivid visualizations, great inspiration, profound creativity and exceptional insight." On that page if you click on "Full article here" it will take you to this article: dldeprez.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/beyond-opera-incredible-voice-of-jackie.html
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 18:53:51 GMT -5
In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, but I must tell you. Elvis did a brilliant version of Danny Boy. It was recorded a year before he died, and his voice wasn't at it's best, but it was every bit Elvis. You said it made you laugh. I knew then that you don't know what you are talking about. You claim to hear four voices in Jackie's Danny Boy. I hear one and it is not her best. For that you need to listen to OMBC, Lovers, Ombra Mai Fu, The Lord's Prayer, and Mi Macherai. All are on Dream With Me. I know you said that Awakening is your favorite album, but Dream With Me is in every way superior to that. There should not be a trumpet in Danny Boy. It is very annoying. You claim you hear Jackie sounding like a trumpet. This is absurd. Jackie can no more sound like a trumpet than a trombone can sound like a violin. I'm actually very fond of DWM, but just like DB, that voice is in the past. She's not a little girl anymore. Awakening sounds closer to her more mature natural voice that she has now. I can hear the little girl in all the DWM songs. I can hear the young teenager girl on the Awakening album. Her voice is going to continue to change, but less dramatically. To address your last point first, I could point you to many YouTube clips of people mimicking the trumpet sound. Instead, look at what the specialists have to say. The Resonator: By themselves, the vocal folds produce a noise that sounds like simple buzzing, much like the mouthpiece on a trumpet. All of the structure above the folds, including the throat, nose, and mouth, are part of the resonator system. We can compare these structures to those of a horn or trumpet. The buzzing sound created by vocal fold vibration is changed by the shape of the resonator tract to produce our unique human sound. www.entnet.org/content/how-voice-worksI can also pinpoint where the trumpet sound gets lost in her voice disproving your claim. And your analogy doesn't work because a trombone, like a trumpet, is a type of wind instrument and the violin is a string instrument. The human voice is similar to a wind instrument in how it produces sound waves.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 19:16:00 GMT -5
Here it is for all to marvel
This is from the first page which I'll use. At 4:07 where she sings "boy" the trumpet sound disappears for a fraction of a second. You have to listen closely, but it's there. At 4:27 where she sings "side" Chris again disappears, but for about 1/2 second. There are two possible explanations. She drowns him out in volume. That's not the case here. Or, their timbres match so perfectly that to the human ear they sound as one voice (instrument). That is how you tune strings of the same note on a piano. You tune the middle string, then with one outside string muted, you tune the other outside string so that with the middle string it sounds like one string.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 19:59:22 GMT -5
In Jackie's DB, I hear 4 voices in her. Part woman, part girl, part boy, and especially, part melancholy trumpet. Funny thing is, no man and yet the song is from the perspective of a father. To me, that just adds to the brillance of what she captured. So to recap, in case you fell asleep, lol. It's not so much the song, as I can find it boring with other singers, it's her interpretation and especially THAT TRUMPET TIMBRE. Do you get it now? Lol I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, but I must tell you. Elvis did a brilliant version of Danny Boy. It was recorded a year before he died, and his voice wasn't at it's best, but it was every bit Elvis. You said it made you laugh. I knew then that you don't know what you are talking about. You claim to hear four voices in Jackie's Danny Boy. I hear one and it is not her best. For that you need to listen to OMBC, Lovers, Ombra Mai Fu, The Lord's Prayer, and Mi Macherai. All are on Dream With Me. I know you said that Awakening is your favorite album, but Dream With Me is in every way superior to that. There should not be a trumpet in Danny Boy. It is very annoying. You claim you hear Jackie sounding like a trumpet. This is absurd. Jackie can no more sound like a trumpet than a trombone can sound like a violin. Is this the "brilliant version"? You obviously like the crying in his voice. I find it cheesy like his tacky outfits. But to each his own. As I said before, music appreciation is highly subjective. But, to be fair, I listened to it all the way through since I didn't the last time. His last note was flat.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 20:32:45 GMT -5
I don't like Elvis' version either because I still find this song blah.
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Post by Julia Trenholm on Nov 27, 2017 23:11:52 GMT -5
I don't like Elvis' version either because I still find this song blah. Just to be contrarian, Cer, I love Danny Boy, whoever sings it. So there. Sentiment is me. And it's a staple in Irish pubs, particularly as the night wears on.
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