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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 17:39:01 GMT -5
I am not on board with criticizing Jackie's parents and how they influence her career. Mike and Lisa raise four children, one of which is exceptionally gifted. They manage Jackie's career in balance with the other children and with their responsibility for raising their children. How they choose to do this is their exclusive domain and "caring" fans have absolutely no right to interfere in this process no matter how well their intentions may be. There is no handbook for raising such a child as Jackie or with 3 other siblings as additional pressure. In all the posts I have read through forums such as this one, not once I have thought "there is fan that clearly could raise a child like Jackie and manage her career at the same time. There is no way that a parent would turn over full management of gifted child's career to a professional manager. To do so would be giving up a significant part of their responsibility of raising a child.
I have no qualms about saying that those of you who feel strongly about having the right to criticize Jackie's parents for how they raise and manage their child's welfare are plain wrong.
Development of Jackie's personal life and career is a marvel which almost every fan here has never experienced before. Just remember that hindsight is 20 / 20 and in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
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Post by rickolsen on Jun 2, 2017 0:17:38 GMT -5
Rob49, I support every member of this forum. My opinions aren't biased. They are factual and well thought out. You need a little help with reading comprehension. I did not say Jackie's parents are stupid. I said they make stupid decisions. I spoke of decisions that directly affected Jackie's sales and career. I didn't say anything about decisions that affected her family. When I say Jackie's parents have made many stupid decisions over the years that is not an insult it is a simple statement of fact. I don't know how long you've been a fan, but I've been here since the beginning and I've seen it all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 1:38:03 GMT -5
I have been outspoken as shown in my post previous to Rick's above. I cannot sit back and accept as opinion, things that are stated as FACT when the statements made have not been proven as factual and being irrefutable. There is no possible way that Lisa and Mike can separate their decisions that affect family and their daughters career.
It matters naught that parental decisions about Jackie are labelled "stupid" by a fan because the only decision that matter are those of the parent(s) who only have a premiere responsibility to their siblings and family. If you find this difficult to accept then I can only suggest that you find a new interest that does not provide you with great anxiety.
Let us cease this doom and gloom chatting about Jackie's family and her career. Let's sit back and enjoy the bus ride instead of criticizing the bus driver for running over a pebble. Twenty years from now the bus driver may sit back and think "if I hadn't run over that pebble on 43rd and 6th then perhaps some of the riders may have got off the bus with a bigger smile." I can assure you that this bus ride is in it for the long haul and probably a lot longer than most of us riders so enjoy what your getting cause that's all there is.
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Post by rickolsen on Jun 2, 2017 3:46:57 GMT -5
Gordie, I have never labelled parental decisions as stupid. I am not privy to any of her parents parental decisions. I have always talked about career decisions as being stupid and there are many. You may call that opinion, but it is a fact. The problem is that Jackie's parents have never been able to seperate Jackie their daughter from Jackie their client.
Let me give you an example of a stupid decison that being putting out SFTSS. They completely changed Jackie's genre with that album and put out an easy listening album. It was a big mistake. It did not sell well and Jackie lost a great many fans because of it. Her career has never recovered.
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Post by juxtaposer on Jun 2, 2017 3:59:14 GMT -5
Gordie, I have never labelled parental decisions as stupid. I am not privy to any of her parents parental decisions. I have always talked about career decisions as being stupid and there are many. You may call that opinion, but it is a fact. The problem is that Jackie's parents have never been able to seperate Jackie their daughter from Jackie their client. Let me give you an example of a stupid decison that being putting out SFTSS. They completely changed Jackie's genre with that album and put out an easy listening album. It was a big mistake. It did not sell well and Jackie lost a great many fans because of it. Her career has never recovered. You might be right about the doll, Rick, but SFTSS to me is pure honey.
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Post by ads on Jun 2, 2017 5:51:35 GMT -5
It shows a lack of sensitivity and respect, and is, in my view, an insult to Jackie. ........Fans who care have every right to talk about this.
An example of one of Mike's major lack of sense stupid decisions was the infamous Jackie doll. I told him at the time it wouldn't sell. He didn't listen, but I was right. They couldn't give them away.
What an excellent example Rick. So this stupid decision has three possible business models. In-source, Outsource or Hybrid. In-source: you would buy the molds, create a distribution chain, pay for the stock and pay for them to be put on the shelf in big chains. Outsource: The toy manufacture approaches Jackie and offers her cash up front for the right to make, produce and distribute the doll. Jackie simply endorses the product receives an set amount and that is that. Hybrid: Something between, like Jackie endorses there is no investment by Jackie and she gets a cut of the profit. There is no doubt that these kind of deals are either outsourced or hybrid. How do I know? Because the best practice is to in-source your core competencies and outsource commodities. If Jackie was to increase her risk profile it would be done my forgoing concert underwriting as that is her core competency, not distributing dolls. So given that Jackie would have walked away from the deal cash in hand or no risk to her, who looks stupid now? If you don't know the situation then best not saying anything at all. As far as your comments go about having a right to comment about management, how about you get up at the end of a concert and express your views to the entire crowd. Then ask Jackie how she feels about what you say. To Jackie there is no difference you saying it on a forum and you saying it in at the end of a concert to the entire crowd. We saw how you reacted when you thought you where badly done by, putting out a video. Are the Evancho's mean't to contact every disgruntled fan and explain to them how the business works? You need to put yourself in Jackie's shoes, not Ricks shoes.
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Post by Beachguy on Jun 2, 2017 8:57:40 GMT -5
I am not on board with criticizing Jackie's parents and how they influence her career. Mike and Lisa raise four children, one of which is exceptionally gifted. They manage Jackie's career in balance with the other children and with their responsibility for raising their children. How they choose to do this is their exclusive domain and "caring" fans have absolutely no right to interfere in this process no matter how well their intentions may be. There is no handbook for raising such a child as Jackie or with 3 other siblings as additional pressure. In all the posts I have read through forums such as this one, not once I have thought "there is fan that clearly could raise a child like Jackie and manage her career at the same time. There is no way that a parent would turn over full management of gifted child's career to a professional manager. To do so would be giving up a significant part of their responsibility of raising a child. I have no qualms about saying that those of you who feel strongly about having the right to criticize Jackie's parents for how they raise and manage their child's welfare are plain wrong. Development of Jackie's personal life and career is a marvel which almost every fan here has never experienced before. Just remember that hindsight is 20 / 20 and in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. We do not know if the the other children may be gifted yet , Lisa has asked us not to put Jackie above them . as far as hindsight goes it was easy to see her last few years of albums were not a good choice , i saw it and said it before the Albums came out . btw there are millions of parents raising more then one child with big talents .
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Post by Beachguy on Jun 2, 2017 9:04:17 GMT -5
I have been outspoken as shown in my post previous to Rick's above. I cannot sit back and accept as opinion, things that are stated as FACT when the statements made have not been proven as factual and being irrefutable. There is no possible way that Lisa and Mike can separate their decisions that affect family and their daughters career. It matters naught that parental decisions about Jackie are labelled "stupid" by a fan because the only decision that matter are those of the parent(s) who only have a premiere responsibility to their siblings and family. If you find this difficult to accept then I can only suggest that you find a new interest that does not provide you with great anxiety. Let us cease this doom and gloom chatting about Jackie's family and her career. Let's sit back and enjoy the bus ride instead of criticizing the bus driver for running over a pebble. Twenty years from now the bus driver may sit back and think "if I hadn't run over that pebble on 43rd and 6th then perhaps some of the riders may have got off the bus with a bigger smile." I can assure you that this bus ride is in it for the long haul and probably a lot longer than most of us riders so enjoy what your getting cause that's all there is. we need to perhaps accept a opinion of another member as a opinion is a opinion not true fact , relax , Jackies' career is in doom and gloom as we speak in June 1st , that is fact , maybe on July 4th we will get a Big Bang out of it .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 9:11:12 GMT -5
Rick: Our position on decisions made by Lisa and Mike differ because you believe Jackie's career decisions can and ought to be made separately from those concerning child rearing. Mike and Lisa make decisions regarding Jackie's welfare as their primary responsibility and those decisions may not always be in the best interests of her career. So be it, that does not make the decisions stupid, particularly when it is in the best interest of the family as a whole. The decisions made by Lisa and Mike are multifaceted and they are such because Jackie herself is multifaceted. I believe your approach to how decisions ought to be made for Jackie is faulty in that you appear to look at issues vertically rather than horizontally. Your approach is way to narrow and only considers the $ impact as the measure of value for a particular decision. In addition your assessment of the decision's worth is almost always based upon results after the fact rather than what lead to the decision at the time it was made and what impacts upon Jackie and the family were considered.
I see no point in furthering discussion on this topic because we will never agree that decisions about Jackie's career can be made without consideration of the greater responsibility for Jackie's and the family unit's welfare. I say this not because of any dislike but rather we simply approach problem solving differently.
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Post by Beachguy on Jun 2, 2017 10:40:48 GMT -5
Very few people IMO from outside the home know who or why a decision was made on anything in her career , IMO many mistakes i believe were made in all ways of her career from social media to public relations to marketing to choices of music and i posted them before or at the time , some called it negative but i saw it as what i saw , i don't say many petty praises just to praise I believed at the time of the outing of Juliet that the Parents on THEIR Face Book or media sites should have posted it ONLY and had Jackie as a minor and the other sister and brother be LOW KEY on the outing of this very PERSONAL event but they PERMITTED or ASKED a Minor sister with a show-biz career of her OWN to protect and build to take the LEAD in story to show off Juliet in New York and social media sites and places , BIG Mistake IMO , she knows she loves her sister no need to ANNOUNCE it to the world being a family matter . Jackies' ? social media sites are not very good either IMO , again i DO NOT PUT THESE NEGATIVES OPINIONS ON JACKIE but of Management from the START .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 11:08:25 GMT -5
Gordie, I have never labelled parental decisions as stupid. I am not privy to any of her parents parental decisions. I have always talked about career decisions as being stupid and there are many. You may call that opinion, but it is a fact. The problem is that Jackie's parents have never been able to seperate Jackie their daughter from Jackie their client. Let me give you an example of a stupid decison that being putting out SFTSS. They completely changed Jackie's genre with that album and put out an easy listening album. It was a big mistake. It did not sell well and Jackie lost a great many fans because of it. Her career has never recovered. You might be right about the doll, Rick, but SFTSS to me is pure honey. Let's go from singing to acting. Pick an actor. OK Clint Eastwood. When little Clint first started his mommy said to do Westerns. Spaghetti movies. Silly. Did a bunch. Then mommy said to do police movies. "Make my day." Did a bunch. Then mommy said to do comedy. Mommy I do not want to act with that big orange monkey. Then FBI, Secret Service. Then Clint said mommy I'm tired of acting let's direct. Most excellent. Listen Rick we all love and admire you. Let this very young, very talented, beautiful girl go through the normal progress of her life. She will surely trip, but in a recent link to TCYK movie JE said to the interviewer who just asked are you done at 13. Jackie said 'my next step will always be UP'. Wow, that is confidence.
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Post by ads on Jun 2, 2017 22:06:44 GMT -5
Am I the only person who thinks that discussing body image on a public forum is crass? Body image as I understand it is a persons internal self assessment of their own body. It can be harmful such as an anorexic's self assessment that their skeletal appearing body is fat, therefore reduction of food or purging is called for in their opinion. Jackie's fans noticed her pigeon toed stance early on and discussed it in a gentle loving manner. No one suggested she was/is deformed. I still hold that it is the sometimes defensive, sometimes habitual, posture of a not very outgoing adolescent female. I could be wrong, I could be right. But it is not crass. Calling others crass when their motives are friendly discussion of a well thought of celebrity seems to me to be a bid for internet control of others. Agog, Sorry to move this to an appropriate thread. Sensitivity is base on feelings of the subject (person) not the intention of the commentator, an appropriate parallel is in defamation law, then intention of the commentator is never an admissible defence. Said in "gentle loving manner" is no excuse. By definition if it is insensitive towards Jackie or anyone else then it is crass. The acid test is would Jackie feel comfortable about you talking about this in-front of her and 200 people. (there are over 200 visitors to this site every day) The silence you hear is actually groans of disbelief. The I initially bought up is minor compared to many of the recent ones, some have surfaced in this thread. I put this question out there and many people said yes they do find it crass. So maybe if you're inclined involve yourself in such discussions you are now aware that people do think less of you for doing so.
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Post by agog on Jun 2, 2017 22:10:18 GMT -5
Body image as I understand it is a persons internal self assessment of their own body. It can be harmful such as an anorexic's self assessment that their skeletal appearing body is fat, therefore reduction of food or purging is called for in their opinion. Jackie's fans noticed her pigeon toed stance early on and discussed it in a gentle loving manner. No one suggested she was/is deformed. I still hold that it is the sometimes defensive, sometimes habitual, posture of a not very outgoing adolescent female. I could be wrong, I could be right. But it is not crass. Calling others crass when their motives are friendly discussion of a well thought of celebrity seems to me to be a bid for internet control of others. Agog, Sorry to move this to an appropriate thread. Sensitivity is base on feelings of the subject (person) not the intention of the commentator, an appropriate parallel is in defamation law, then intention of the commentator is never an admissible defence. Said in "gentle loving manner" is no excuse. By definition if it is insensitive towards Jackie or anyone else then it is crass. The acid test is would Jackie feel comfortable about you talking about this in-front of her and 200 people. (there are over 200 visitors to this site every day) The silence you hear is actually groans of disbelief. The I initially bought up is minor compared to many of the recent ones, some have surfaced in this thread. I put this question out there and many people said yes they do find it crass. So maybe if you're inclined involve yourself in such discussions you are now aware that people do think less of you for doing so. Ads, you are one of the people who try to limit other fans speech. I don't give a dam what you think of me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 22:46:21 GMT -5
Jackie didn't seem at all upset when the pigeon-toed thing was brought up on Access Hollywood, viewed by thousands. "I was a little girl...I was a little girl", she said, smiling, in response to Juliet bringing it up. She had just teased Juliet, who responded by laughing. The Evanchos never seemed like delicate flowers to me. They handle snakes and ride dirtbikes, for heaven's sake.
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Post by rickolsen on Jun 3, 2017 3:39:40 GMT -5
So given that Jackie would have walked away from the deal cash in hand or no risk to her, who looks stupid now? If you don't know the situation then best not saying anything at all. That doll made Jackie look bad. The damage to her reputation far exceeded any pittance Mike might have made on the deal.
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