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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 15:33:43 GMT -5
This might be the only example for awhile, but I made the thread because it didn't seem to fit very well anywhere else.
I'm wondering if anyone else has read Voicing Girlhood in Popular Music- Performance, Authority, Authenticity, edited by Jaqueline Warwick and Allison Adrian; particularly the chapter devoted to Jackie by Dana Gorzelany-Mostak, titled "The Curse of O mio bambino caro". The book is one of a series of 13, the Routledge Studies in Popular Music.
Some may remember Gorzelany-Mostak from when she was a member of the old Proboards forum, and solicited other members for essays on Jackie, and picked several members, I guess on the basis of those, to interview as part of her research for this work.
Dr. Gorzelany-Mostak is an Assistant Professor of Music at Georgia College. She holds a PhD in musicology from McGill University. The piece is basically an analysis of the Jackie phenomenon, you might say, and the public, media, and music industry reaction to her, in the context of young music prodigies historically and young girls in the music industry in general. It mostly looks at Jackie's early career up to & including Silver Screen, though there are a few closing paragraphs on Awakening and Jackie's transition out of her child prodigy stage, which were probably added to the piece after her engagement with the forum members.
All her sources are referenced with footnotes, as normal in academic work. Several forum members and other people we are familiar with are quoted, identified only by first name and last initial. There are quotes from Lisa. As it is a certainty that she is aware of the piece, it must be judged likely that she and possibly other members of the family and Team have read it as well. I think it possible that the Team's aims and strategies have been influenced by the piece.
It's a fairly cold and analytic piece though in general kind and respectful to Jackie, less so to the fandom and especially the media. (the author confesses to being "an unabashed Jackie fan") I fear the author's perception of the fandom may have been warped a bit by her focus on the forum members- especially those who came forth to volunteer- known in statistics as a self-selected sample. Jackie's general fan base has been shown to be a good deal broader demographically. She does acknowledge this in part, when writing of the internet forums and the preponderance there of middle-age and older men. (MAOMs?) General demographic statistics are not looked at in the article.
Someone has added a brief quotation from it at the bottom of Jackie's Wikipedia article. I'd like to quote extensive passages from it myself, but feel constrained by the copyright notification in the book, which is all-encompassing. I recommend it to anyone curious about an academic view of the Jackie phenomenon.
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Post by pgantioch on Dec 22, 2016 16:54:40 GMT -5
"The Curse of O mio bambino caro" Goodness, I hope the PhD in musicology didn't put that in the actual book. It's "O mio BABBINO caro"! "Bambino" means baby, & "babbino" is an affectionate name for father. The song is sung by a teenage girl to her father, about her boyfriend. People have debated endlessly whether it's serious, sarcastic, funny or something else.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 11:15:11 GMT -5
"The Curse of O mio bambino caro" Goodness, I hope the PhD in musicology didn't put that in the actual book. It's "O mio BABBINO caro"! "Bambino" means baby, & "babbino" is an affectionate name for father. The song is sung by a teenage girl to her father, about her boyfriend. People have debated endlessly whether it's serious, sarcastic, funny or something else. It's "bambino" in the book, a pun. Referring to the child prodigy thing. In italics, I suppose to give a clue it's not an error.
Gianni Schicchi is a comic opera, so the debate can only be among those ignorant of that. The Lauretta character is a silly, pretty young thing that has her father wrapped around her finger. Tomorrow she will be threatening to throw herself in the Arno if she can't have a pony. Check out the plot synopsis in Wiki. Sung in concert, however, singers can reinterpret, just as Jackie does with Nessun Dorma. Sumi Jo sang OMBC as a tribute to her father in a concert just after he died, and she was definitely not being funny. OMBC is often translated as "O my dear father" but more accurate would be "O dear daddy".
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Post by pgantioch on Dec 23, 2016 11:24:17 GMT -5
"The Curse of O mio bambino caro" Goodness, I hope the PhD in musicology didn't put that in the actual book. It's "O mio BABBINO caro"! "Bambino" means baby, & "babbino" is an affectionate name for father. The song is sung by a teenage girl to her father, about her boyfriend. People have debated endlessly whether it's serious, sarcastic, funny or something else. It's "bambino" in the book, a pun. Referring to the child prodigy thing. In italics, I suppose to give a clue it's not an error.
Gianni Schicchi is a comic opera, so the debate can only be among those ignorant of that. The Lauretta character is a silly, pretty young thing that has her father wrapped around her finger. Tomorrow she will be threatening to throw herself in the Arno if she can't have a pony. Check out the plot synopsis in Wiki. Sung in concert, however, singers can reinterpret, just as Jackie does with Nessun Dorma. Sumi Jo sang OMBC as a tribute to her father in a concert just after he died, and she was definitely not being funny. OMBC is often translated as "O my dear father" but more accurate would be "O dear daddy".
It's a bad pun then, IYAM. Agree about your more accurate translation & about reinterpretation. BTW, the hover feature now works for me, actually translating OMBC as "O Mio Babbino Caro"! I admit I don't get it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 11:59:46 GMT -5
It's "bambino" in the book, a pun. Referring to the child prodigy thing. In italics, I suppose to give a clue it's not an error.
Gianni Schicchi is a comic opera, so the debate can only be among those ignorant of that. The Lauretta character is a silly, pretty young thing that has her father wrapped around her finger. Tomorrow she will be threatening to throw herself in the Arno if she can't have a pony. Check out the plot synopsis in Wiki. Sung in concert, however, singers can reinterpret, just as Jackie does with Nessun Dorma. Sumi Jo sang OMBC as a tribute to her father in a concert just after he died, and she was definitely not being funny. OMBC is often translated as "O my dear father" but more accurate would be "O dear daddy".
It's a bad pun then, IYAM. Agree about your more accurate translation & about reinterpretation. BTW, the hover feature now works for me, actually translating OMBC as "O Mio Babbino Caro"! I admit I don't get it. Yeah, I agree, but it's a rare pun that doesn't have a groan! factor to it. Probably the author was chuckling a bit that the media and internet dwellers often put it "bambino" by mistake.
Among other things, the article goes into the psychology of the natural affection a child inspires in audiences and the magnified emotional impact, and how it was exploited by AGT, along with the angel/divine messenger thing, which is not unknown in the opera world even for adult soprano divas, in the way her performances were staged. Their references to opera are also represented as intentional, as to the much of the general public opera is thought of as something exalted, out of reach to ordinary people, even as they mock it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 12:26:29 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent.
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Post by juxtaposer on Dec 25, 2016 4:32:13 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent. ..which is the very substance of music and art that has been going on for thousands of years (the author of that paper might be interested to know). To think of those AGT and other early masterpieces as "curses" is ridiculous. I give credit to Sharon Osborne who first used the word "heavenly" to describe what she had heard and sensed. The thing is that people use superlatives like "heavenly", "divine", "angel", "sublime" etc etc when attempting to explain the inexplicable. "I got it from God" makes as much sense as any of those, but Jackie did go on to clarify it very appropriately, I thought.
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Post by jrchico on Dec 25, 2016 4:46:17 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent. ..which is the very substance of music and art that has been going on for thousands of years (the author of that paper might be interested to know). To think of those AGT and other early masterpieces as "curses" is ridiculous. I give credit to Sharon Osborne who first used the word "heavenly" to describe what she had heard and sensed. The thing is that people use superlatives like "heavenly", "divine", "angel", "sublime" etc etc when attempting to explain the inexplicable. "I got it from God" makes as much sense as any of those, but Jackie did go on to clarify it very appropriately, I thought. What a great representative of the United States of America she has turned out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 17:42:12 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent. I'll always remember a comment on YouTube where the poster truly believed that Jackie was chosen by God to become known to us, then to deliver a message, i.e. be a messianic figure. I remember thinking that would creep me out if people thought that about my child. I prefer the explanation given in the 20/20 segment, that it's Jackie's brain, as it always seemed to me that she simply willed herself to sound like that.
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Post by juxtaposer on Dec 25, 2016 17:50:26 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent. I'll always remember a comment on YouTube where the poster truly believed that Jackie was chosen by God to become known to us, then to deliver a message, i.e. be a messianic figure. I remember thinking that would creep me out if people thought that about my child. I prefer the explanation given in the 20/20 segment, that it's Jackie's brain, as it always seemed to me that she simply willed herself to sound like that. Could be Jackie's brain. Could be what's going on in our brains too, or both.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 9:19:08 GMT -5
..which is the very substance of music and art that has been going on for thousands of years (the author of that paper might be interested to know). To think of those AGT and other early masterpieces as "curses" is ridiculous. I give credit to Sharon Osborne who first used the word "heavenly" to describe what she had heard and sensed. The thing is that people use superlatives like "heavenly", "divine", "angel", "sublime" etc etc when attempting to explain the inexplicable. "I got it from God" makes as much sense as any of those, but Jackie did go on to clarify it very appropriately, I thought. I'm sure that a musicologist would be aware of the religious inspiration of most music and art, up until the present era. She's a feminist, also probably a humanist, that thinks humans should get the credit, and the responsibility, for what they do. "Curse" is a little strong, but it is true that Jackie has now to deal with the declining interest of a segment of the public that thinks she was better when she was a little angel.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 10:00:30 GMT -5
I know the term "feminist" pushes buttons for some people, and there is some excess among people that call themselves so, but one must grant they have made a point or two, historically and in the present day. It is true that boy prodigies are not nearly so subject to such associations, and are more likely to get the whole credit for their abilities. Whether the advantage insofar as public notice for girls from it is on the whole a benefit is debatable.
The book is one of 13 in a series on popular music. This whole volume focuses on young women in popular music, and you might expect to encounter some feminists interested in the subject. To put the article in context, here are the other chapter headings; each by a different author:
Part 1- Voice and Agency I'm with the Band: Redefining Young Feminism
Girls at Work: Gendered Identities, Sex Segregation, and Employment Experiences in the Music Industries
"I Love Beyoncé, but I Struggle with Beyoncé" Girl Activists Talk Music and Feminism
Part 2- Voice and Vocality
"These Stupid Little Sounds in Her Voice": Valuing and Vilifying the New Girl Voice
Girls and Puberty: The Voice, It Is a-Changin'; A Discussion of Pedagogical Methods for the Training of the Voice through Puberty
(Jackie's article here)
Part 3- Voice and Authority
Performing Pop Girlhood on Disney Channel
When Loud Means Real: Tween Girls and the Voices of Rock Authenticiy
You Tube, Twerking, and You: Context Collapse and the Handheld Copresence of Black Girls and Miley Cyrus
Part 4- Voice and Narrative
The Counterpoint of Aging and Coming of Age in the Mother-Daughter Duets of Tori Amos and Natashya Hawley
Listen to the Mockingjay: Voice, Identity, and Agency in The Hunger Games Trilogy
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Post by pgantioch on Dec 26, 2016 13:05:28 GMT -5
The author deplores the exploitation of the imagery and divine associations, arguing that it allows Jackie's real abilities to be discounted, attributed to something other than her, which makes many people more comfortable with her extraordinariness. Jackie (perhaps)unconsciously fed into that, with her humble it's-from-God routine. It's in that way that it's a "curse" that Jackie must now overcome to be recognized for her talent. I'll always remember a comment on YouTube where the poster truly believed that Jackie was chosen by God to become known to us, then to deliver a message, i.e. be a messianic figure. I remember thinking that would creep me out if people thought that about my child. I prefer the explanation given in the 20/20 segment, that it's Jackie's brain, as it always seemed to me that she simply willed herself to sound like that. Lisa was creeped out at the time. She just said Jackie was "a little girl who sings pretty" not the Messiah.
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Post by juxtaposer on Dec 26, 2016 17:58:52 GMT -5
..which is the very substance of music and art that has been going on for thousands of years (the author of that paper might be interested to know). To think of those AGT and other early masterpieces as "curses" is ridiculous. I give credit to Sharon Osborne who first used the word "heavenly" to describe what she had heard and sensed. The thing is that people use superlatives like "heavenly", "divine", "angel", "sublime" etc etc when attempting to explain the inexplicable. "I got it from God" makes as much sense as any of those, but Jackie did go on to clarify it very appropriately, I thought. I'm sure that a musicologist would be aware of the religious inspiration of most music and art, up until the present era. She's a feminist, also probably a humanist, that thinks humans should get the credit, and the responsibility, for what they do. "Curse" is a little strong, but it is true that Jackie has now to deal with the declining interest of a segment of the public that thinks she was better when she was a little angel. Religious songs are exactly that, and so long as Jackie sings them she will evoke a range of responses in people with religious convictions. Being young and innocent undoubtedly did make her seem angelic in a range of ways, but even her non religious songs evoke strong "effects" on people religious and non religious. The bit about Jackie's real abilities being thought less of by some because God was more deserving of the credit is very odd, and surely a fringe opinion even among those with deep religious convictions. Jackie the human being doesn't seem to lack the credit she deserves for her abilities. There was never any way the image of her at 9,10,11,12 was going to continue indefinitely. It has changed and will keep changing. It wasn't just religious people who were impressed and inspired by her as a child prodigy. How many non religious fans of her early career are still fans now she's an adolescent? Are they any different, or did the humanist academic only put the spotlight on the religious ones? If Jackie loses some fans over time for whatever reason, the challenge will be for her to generate new ones. This is still only the beginning.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 3:20:38 GMT -5
The bit about Jackie's real abilities being thought less of by some because God was more deserving of the credit is very odd, and surely a fringe opinion even among those with deep religious convictions. I think she's not saying that it's an opinion, but an unconscious psychological process, that enabled some people to reconcile what they couldn't quite believe- that little girl and that voice, that level of ability. Other people say, she's just a mimic. She covers that too, and denies its validity, noting that music prodigies typically are more interested in expression than in technique. Divine associations are only a part of her analysis. She doesn't disparage religion at all, or at least any more than any other bug under her microscope. did the humanist academic only put the spotlight on the religious ones? No, not at all. In fact she noted that people with no pretense to any sort of piety were often inspired nevertheless to express themselves in religious terms about Jackie. In other words, you could say, she could give a religious experience even to atheists!
The problem comes when she becomes a teenager, is no longer the perfect haloed girl-child, those who have reconciled themselves to her ability in this way experience a reaction against her, having got used to that attitude. Psychological works are referenced. There may be more former followers that have faded in this way than we like to imagine. As you say, her challenge is to gain new fans- under a new paradigm. All of us here, I am sure, think her well equipped to succeed.
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