With regard to what I said about Jackie having a Bel-Canto voice according to the original meaning, I was referencing this video, as I stated. The description is given from 0:17 through 1:17. Please watch the whole video for examples including Jackie.
Bel-Canto-Jackie Evancho-Voice Types 2
I've known the Vido for a long time. Also all other videos. I downloaded and saved all these videos. You can't take such videos seriously (on the same channel is a video about model railways) and you can't apply these old videos to today's Jackie.
Yeah, I've known of it for years also, and I know it isn't new to you. Nevertheless, In the video it's stated that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir has "50 sopranos who can all hit a pure A5" (key word, 'pure'), which is demonstrated at 4:23. I suspect you might say they are actually mezzos and not sopranos, because A5 is in the mezzo range, not soprano. If that were the case, then what were the sopranos doing? "Soprano"...."mezzo"...."soprano"...."mezzo".... A high note is a high note, and if it's beautifully executed then, what does it really matter, right?
This is your thread, so you're entitled to have the last word. Here's an effortless B5....Goodbye.
Last Edit: Jun 19, 2022 22:03:27 GMT -5 by lawrence
I've known the Vido for a long time. Also all other videos. I downloaded and saved all these videos. You can't take such videos seriously (on the same channel is a video about model railways) and you can't apply these old videos to today's Jackie.
Yeah, I've known of it for years also, and I know it isn't new to you. Nevertheless, In the video it's stated that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir has "50 sopranos who can all hit a pure A5" (key word, 'pure'), which is demonstrated at 4:23. I suspect you might say they are actually mezzos and not sopranos, because A5 is in the mezzo range, not soprano. If that were the case, then what were the sopranos doing? "Soprano"...."mezzo"...."soprano"...."mezzo".... A high note is a high note, and if it's beautifully executed then, what does it really matter, right?
This is your thread, so you're entitled to have the last word. Here's an effortless B5....Goodbye.
a soprano in the choir only has to sing a5, a soprano solo singer has to be recognizable above the choir, so he has to sing significantly higher, a good mezzo sings b5 and higher, how can jackie differ from a mezzo if she can't sing a higher note
I've known the Vido for a long time. Also all other videos. I downloaded and saved all these videos. You can't take such videos seriously (on the same channel is a video about model railways) and you can't apply these old videos to today's Jackie.
Yeah, I've known of it for years also, and I know it isn't new to you. Nevertheless, In the video it's stated that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir has "50 sopranos who can all hit a pure A5" (key word, 'pure'), which is demonstrated at 4:23. I suspect you might say they are actually mezzos and not sopranos, because A5 is in the mezzo range, not soprano. If that were the case, then what were the sopranos doing? "Soprano"...."mezzo"...."soprano"...."mezzo".... A high note is a high note, and if it's beautifully executed then, what does it really matter, right?
This is your thread, so you're entitled to have the last word. Here's an effortless B5....Goodbye.
There was a communication from Jackie and sumi jo on Twitter in 2012, read it, it's about the flower duet.
I've known the Vido for a long time. Also all other videos. I downloaded and saved all these videos. You can't take such videos seriously (on the same channel is a video about model railways) and you can't apply these old videos to today's Jackie.
Yeah, I've known of it for years also, and I know it isn't new to you. Nevertheless, In the video it's stated that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir has "50 sopranos who can all hit a pure A5" (key word, 'pure'), which is demonstrated at 4:23. I suspect you might say they are actually mezzos and not sopranos, because A5 is in the mezzo range, not soprano. If that were the case, then what were the sopranos doing? "Soprano"...."mezzo"...."soprano"...."mezzo".... A high note is a high note, and if it's beautifully executed then, what does it really matter, right?
This is your thread, so you're entitled to have the last word. Here's an effortless B5....Goodbye.
a recording from 2017 is not relevant. since then her voice has only gone down, not up. Jackie can sing the highest notes for the following voice types: Bass.Bariton.Tenor.Contralto.Mezzo. there are no pure voices, all voices have overtones and undertones. all of these irrelevant statements apply to all voice types.
a recording from 2017 is not relevant. since then her voice has only gone down
This performance was in March, 2022. The final "vincero" is B5, just as clear and beautiful as the B5 in Attesa at age 16.
I'm not mistaken. Jackie's voice has not been higher (up) but lower (down) since 2017. When Jackie sings higher soon, I will change my mind. At the moment I am not able to recognize Jackie as a soprano. In the genre in which Jackie is currently released, it does not matter whether she is called a soprano or mezzo.
This performance was in March, 2022. The final "vincero" is B5, just as clear and beautiful as the B5 in Attesa at age 16.
I'm not mistaken. Jackie's voice has not been higher (up) but lower (down) since 2017. When Jackie sings higher soon, I will change my mind. At the moment I am not able to recognize Jackie as a soprano. In the genre in which Jackie is currently released, it does not matter whether she is called a soprano or mezzo.
I haven't said her voice is higher. I did say, however, she is capable of singing higher than a B5 which is effortless for her. I can't prove it, but neither can it be proven that she isn't.
I think you may be judging her voice as "lower" based on her performances on Masked Singer. I explained that she intentionally avoided her signature high register so she wouldn't be recognized, choosing pop, country, pop ballads and jazz songs which are easily in her mezzo range. That makes sense when the objective is to fool the judges. She sang her standard CC repertoire, with her Puccini medley encore, immediately afterward, until the pandemic put a halt to her concert tour. And, she continued with it upon returning from her long absence, first with a Christmas concert of favorites, then on to CA an FL as you see in clips from those concerts.
There was no voice change from April, 2020 to March, 2022. Joni Mitchell songs were recorded in late 2020. And, as I said, they are a "piece of cake" for her. Her high notes are just as effortless and clear, which indicates to me she hasn't lost any capability in her upper range. "River" and Both Sides Now" don't demand a high soprano range. Remember that songs like "Rains of Castamere" or The Way We Were" didn't demonstrate her upper range, but she still had it. One cannot say her voice has "gone down" based on what she has recorded. We'll see what she brings to the stage next month at Ocean City.
Last Edit: Jun 21, 2022 9:10:18 GMT -5 by lawrence
Ich habe nicht Unrecht. Jackies Stimme ist seit 2017 nicht höher (oben), sondern tiefer (unten). Wenn Jackie bald höher singt, werde ich meine Meinung ändern. Momentan kann ich Jackie nicht als Sopran erkennen. In dem Genre, in dem Jackie derzeit veröffentlicht wird, spielt es keine Rolle, ob sie als Sopran oder Mezzo bezeichnet wird.
Ich habe nicht gesagt, dass ihre Stimme höher ist. Ich habe jedoch gesagt, dass sie in der Lage ist, höher als B5 zu singen, was für sie mühelos ist. Ich kann es nicht beweisen, aber es kann auch nicht bewiesen werden, dass sie es nicht ist.
I think you may be judging her voice as "lower" based on her performances on Masked Singer. I explained that she intentionally avoided her signature high register so she wouldn't be recognized, choosing pop, country, pop ballads and jazz songs which are easily in her mezzo range. That makes sense when the objective is to fool the judges. She sang her standard CC repertoire, with her Puccini medley encore, immediately afterward, until the pandemic put a halt to her concert tour. And, she continued with it upon returning from her long absence, first with a Christmas concert of favorites, then on to CA an FL as you see in clips from those concerts.
There was no voice change from April, 2020 to March, 2022. Joni Mitchell songs were recorded in late 2020. And, as I said, they are a "piece of cake" for her. Her high notes are just as effortless and clear, which indicates to me she hasn't lost any capability in her upper range. "River" and Both Sides Now" don't demand a high soprano range. Remember that songs like "Rains of Castamere" or The Way We Were" didn't demonstrate her upper range, but she still had it. One cannot say her voice has "gone down" based on what she has recorded. We'll see what she brings to the stage next month at Ocean City.
What kind of mindset is that, just because jackie has never lifted a car doesn't mean she can't. Jackie didn't sound any different on the masked singer than on the debut. If you're recognized, you're not kicked out. Jackie has artistic license. Jackie could sing a higher note than intended at any time. With how great you are e.g. Why doesn't Jackie sing with the head voice in River and Both Sides Now?
Ich habe nicht gesagt, dass ihre Stimme höher ist. Ich habe jedoch gesagt, dass sie in der Lage ist, höher als B5 zu singen, was für sie mühelos ist. Ich kann es nicht beweisen, aber es kann auch nicht bewiesen werden, dass sie es nicht ist.
I think you may be judging her voice as "lower" based on her performances on Masked Singer. I explained that she intentionally avoided her signature high register so she wouldn't be recognized, choosing pop, country, pop ballads and jazz songs which are easily in her mezzo range. That makes sense when the objective is to fool the judges. She sang her standard CC repertoire, with her Puccini medley encore, immediately afterward, until the pandemic put a halt to her concert tour. And, she continued with it upon returning from her long absence, first with a Christmas concert of favorites, then on to CA an FL as you see in clips from those concerts.
There was no voice change from April, 2020 to March, 2022. Joni Mitchell songs were recorded in late 2020. And, as I said, they are a "piece of cake" for her. Her high notes are just as effortless and clear, which indicates to me she hasn't lost any capability in her upper range. "River" and Both Sides Now" don't demand a high soprano range. Remember that songs like "Rains of Castamere" or The Way We Were" didn't demonstrate her upper range, but she still had it. One cannot say her voice has "gone down" based on what she has recorded. We'll see what she brings to the stage next month at Ocean City.
What kind of mindset is that, just because jackie has never lifted a car doesn't mean she can't. Jackie didn't sound any different on the masked singer than on the debut. If you're recognized, you're not kicked out. Jackie has artistic license. Jackie could sing a higher note than intended at any time. With how great you are e.g. Why doesn't Jackie sing with the head voice in River and Both Sides Now?
A B5 is "effortless" for Jackie. A little common sense tells you she can sing a C6 (one semitone higher, top note of the soprano range). I'm confident that when a song comes along that is meaningful to her with a C6, she will record it. She had never sung a B5 before she recorded Attesa. Her highest recorded note had been A#5 in "Think of Me" (one semitone lower than B5). According to your logic, she would not have been capable of singing a B5 at that time, but obviously she was.
"Jackie didn't sound any different on the masked singer than on the debut."
You know that, I know that, and so do fans who recognized very early that Jackie was "Kitty", because we were familiar with her Broadway/pop voice. But, the judges and the mainstream audience were not. Using that voice was successful in completely fooling the judges and many fans as well who had not listened to The Debut, or hadn't made the connection.
"Why doesn't Jackie sing with the head voice in River and Both Sides Now?"
I don't understand your point, but she does in "River" and in the chorus of BSN, because that's the affect she wanted. I've said before that Jackie uses head voice selectively when she wants a note or phrase to have a light lyrical quality, rather than belt it. She will sing a high note, a phrase or verse with either her chest voice or head voice depending on the character of the song. Neither River nor BSN are belting songs the way she interprets them.
Last Edit: Jul 15, 2022 23:03:32 GMT -5 by lawrence
What kind of mindset is that, just because jackie has never lifted a car doesn't mean she can't. Jackie didn't sound any different on the masked singer than on the debut. If you're recognized, you're not kicked out. Jackie has artistic license. Jackie could sing a higher note than intended at any time. With how great you are e.g. Why doesn't Jackie sing with the head voice in River and Both Sides Now?
A B5 is "effortless" for Jackie. A little common sense tells you she can sing a C6 (one semitone higher, top note of the soprano range). I'm confident that when a song comes along that is meaningful to her with a C6, she will record it. She had never sung a B5 before she recorded Attesa. Her highest recorded note had been A#5 in "Think of Me" (one semitone lower than B5). According to your logic, she would not have been capable of singing a B5 at that time, but obviously she was.
"Jackie didn't sound any different on the masked singer than on the debut."
You know that, I know that, and so do fans who recognized very early that Jackie was "Kitty", because we were familiar with her Broadway/pop voice. But, the judges and the mainstream audience were not. Using that voice was successful in completely fooling the judges and many fans as well who had not listened to The Debut, or hadn't made the connection.
"Why doesn't Jackie sing with the head voice in River and Both Sides Now?"
On the debut jackie sang lower than on the TMS. TMS is just another example.
jackie sings an f4 in the chorus of BSN, if that is her head voice that would be her passagio or lower. The head part of women starts much higher, between d5 and f5. This is the upper passagio. So no head voice.
jackie sings an f4 in the chorus of BSN, if that is her head voice that would be her passagio or lower. The head part of women starts much higher, between d5 and f5. This is the upper passagio. So no head voice
We are talking about Jackie who's passaggio is unique. It is "seamless". And, as I've said, her falsetto (head voice) is selective, not limited to necessity as it generally is with other "women" singers. Apparently you can't HEAR her falsetto, which isn't uncommon because she is masterful in her use of it.
My final argument:
Jackie is NOT A CLASSICAL SINGER. Therefore, it is not expected of her to meet your requirements of a soprano according to classical definitions, and to "sing above the choir", as you said. We are speaking about an UNTRAINED singer.
According to a voice teacher/coach/author/composer: "An untrained soprano's range would be around A3-C6, and alto would be around D3-G5". Jackie's RECORDED soprano range is B5 (one semitone below C6). As I've asserted, she is capable of a C6. Theoretically, if she were to join the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, she would be assigned to the SOPRANO section, which as you said, "is only required to sing an A5"...I'll accept that. However, If a particular song score required a C6, she along with other capable sopranos would be expected to execute it, or least most of them, she being among the drop-outs I suppose, if you were the choir director :0
In support of your description of her as a mezzo-soprano (the equivalent of ALTO), she could easily sing the alto parts as well (alto range for untrained singers is D3-G5)...She would probably be the most versatile member of the entire female chorus. But, according to your assessment she would theoretically be restricted to sing only with the alto section. More than that, she would probably be "kicked out", no matter what part she sings, for being too expressive and moving too much....LOL
You may continue to assert that "Jackie cannot be described a soprano". Other singers, concert venues, magazine writers, TV interviewers, the media, countless fans who are "mesmerized" by her "soprano bell-tone", and particularly choir directors would disagree. Stick to analyzing classical singers....You're good at that. Jackie ain't one of them.
Last Edit: Jun 23, 2022 9:05:15 GMT -5 by lawrence
jackie sings an f4 in the chorus of BSN, if that is her head voice that would be her passagio or lower. The head part of women starts much higher, between d5 and f5. This is the upper passagio. So no head voice
We are talking about Jackie who's passaggio is unique. It is "seamless". And, as I've said, her falsetto (head voice) is selective, not limited to necessity as it generally is with other "women" singers. Apparently you can't HEAR her falsetto, which isn't uncommon because she is masterful in her use of it.
My final argument:
Jackie is NOT A CLASSICAL SINGER. Therefore, it is not expected of her to meet your requirements of a soprano according to classical definitions, and to "sing above the choir", as you said. We are speaking about an UNTRAINED singer.
According to a voice teacher/coach/author/composer: "An untrained soprano's range would be around A3-C6, and alto would be around D3-G5". Jackie's RECORDED soprano range is B5 (one semitone below C6). As I've asserted, she is capable of a C6. Theoretically, if she were to join the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, she would be assigned to the SOPRANO section, which as you said, "is only required to sing an A5"...I'll accept that. However, If a particular song score required a C6, she along with other capable sopranos would be expected to execute it, or least most of them, she being among the drop-outs I suppose, if you were the choir director :0
In support of your description of her as a mezzo-soprano (the equivalent of ALTO), she could easily sing the alto parts as well (alto range for untrained singers is D3-G5)...She would probably be the most versatile member of the entire female chorus. But, according to your assessment she would theoretically be restricted to sing only with the alto section. More than that, she would probably be "kicked out", no matter what part she sings, for being too expressive and moving too much....LOL
You may continue to assert that "Jackie cannot be described a soprano". Other singers, concert venues, magazine writers, TV interviewers, the media, countless fans who are "mesmerized" by her "soprano bell-tone", and particularly choir directors would disagree. Stick to analyzing classical singers....You're good at that. Jackie ain't one of them.
jackie sings bel canto but not classical, interesting. jackie's voice is unique you can't hear the passagio, that's bullshit. You can hear when someone is singing in a different register. Many fans describe how well jackie can switch registers. You always claim that jackie can sing a c6 because she can sing a b5, so she can also sing d6 because she can also sing c6, so also e6 etc. Since when is alto the equivalent of mezzo-soprano?
jackie sings bel canto but not classical, interesting. jackie's voice is unique you can't hear the passagio, that's bullshit. You can hear when someone is singing in a different register. Many fans describe how well jackie can switch registers. You always claim that jackie can sing a c6 because she can sing a b5, so she can also sing d6 because she can also sing c6, so also e6 etc. Since when is alto the equivalent of mezzo-soprano?
On June 18th in this thread, you said, "Only opera singers have bel-canto": My reply: "With regard to what I said about Jackie having a Bel-Canto voice according to the ORIGINAL meaning, I was referencing this video, as I stated. The description is given from 0:17 through 1:17." I suspect you didn't actually watch the video I posted, because the description is written on the screen, "FOR 1000 YEARS, BEL CANTO HAS MEANT 'THE EPITOMY OF ETHEREAL, BEAUTIFUL SINGING'....In this video, we stay with the 1000 year old definition of 'Bel Canto'...We are not referring to the vocal style developed in the 1800s by the "Castrati" and mis-named "Bel Canto" (the Classical definition you refer to, fostered by the opera community). I refer to Jackie's bel-canto as "ethereal, beautiful singing".
"Jackie's passaggio is seamless". That means you cannot easily discern her transition from chest to head voice, which is generally an apparent/obvious break in the voice. Her chest voice glides smoothly into falsetto without that sudden, audible switch to head voice you typically hear in other singers. That has been an innate attribute of hers since she was 10 years old. It's one of the subtle things in Jackie's delivery that makes her unique. She may do that going from one note to another or within a single note. In "Caruso", at the end she glides (seamlessly) into falsetto on the word "san-gri" to give the note a light lyrical quality fading away. Then she finishes the song softly in falsetto.....Listen from time mark 3:43.
Jackie could sing a B5 before she sang Attesa though it had never been recorded. You would have said before she recorded Attesa that she could NOT sing a B5 when obviously she was capable. I said she is capable of a C6 because her B5 is "effortless" just as her A#5 in "Think of Me" was effortless. A semitone rise is not a difficult achievement. One's practice range is higher than one's performance range. That's why conscientious vocalists have a "practice range". They don't perform at their peak capacity, so a very high note is not strained. Jackie may begin to strain at D#6, maybe an E6. We don't know (yet) what her actual limit is, but it's reasonable to assume It's not strained at C6.
As the voice teacher/coach I quoted above said, the alto range of an untrained singer is "around D3-G5". The trained Mezzo-soprano range is designated A3-A5, and according to you, it's lower when describing Jackie's range. They are very nearly the same. Mezzo-Soprano is a classical description with it's assigned traits, whereas "alto" is a choral description (sopranos, altos, tenors and basses). You said in another discussion that Jackie "is an alto" while you also say she is a mezzo-soprano.
I've said one "can call Jackie a mezzo-soprano" because she has the bottom range of a mezzo. I haven't contested that. She can also be called a soprano, because she has the range of a soprano (not the classically trained soprano who should be able to "sing above the choir", as you said, but the untrained soprano, or choir soprano). I am asserting that one can't reasonably say "Jackie cannot be described as a soprano" which was your opening statement of this thread. You may persist, but It's a matter of what people perceive themselves. I've given my perception.
Last Edit: Jun 25, 2022 7:16:52 GMT -5 by lawrence
ghost: How about this for the header picture? ibb.co/34dJrVN
Mar 22, 2024 20:06:57 GMT -5
msims: www.youtube.com/watch?v=irK-SGUZeSM Rick would like this. A World Silver Medal Winner Skating to Jackie's Nella Fantasia last week
Mar 24, 2024 18:43:32 GMT -5
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rickolsen: New Header. Do you like it?
Mar 24, 2024 19:22:41 GMT -5
lawrence: rickallanolsen has taken to disparaging Jackie on her YouTube videos......"Smoking Gun" and her recent upload of Set Me Free. What's up with that, Rick?
Mar 25, 2024 15:56:41 GMT -5
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rickolsen: If my comments were disparaging I apologize. To me her classical crossover voice was much better than her pop voice and so were the songs. Beginning with her album The Debut when she switched to pop I haven't purchased anything she's put out.
Mar 26, 2024 6:25:53 GMT -5
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hiturbine: I'm really tempted to say something about this ongoing nonsense, but I'll hold my peace - for now
Apr 2, 2024 20:23:44 GMT -5
Willyiam: Admin: Why was Other Artists deleted without first asking for the member's approval?? And, why now? Other Artists has been a part of this forum for years!! I strongly disapprove!
Apr 6, 2024 10:26:29 GMT -5
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rickolsen: I have rethunk my decision. Other Artists is back.
Apr 10, 2024 13:18:58 GMT -5
lawrence: Rick's comment on Jackie's Smoking Gun video...."Jackie's competition has never been promoted on my forum". What is the objective of re-establishing Other Artists on the board?
Apr 10, 2024 18:10:12 GMT -5
hiturbine: OK, I am going to chime in here: I do not understand the OTT reaction to having a folder for "Other Artists." This forum has FOURTEEN folders dedicated to Jackie - and ONE for "Other Artists." So, how about calming down, and quit with the drama?
Apr 10, 2024 19:08:05 GMT -5
rlhamil: ...that's as of October 1, 2023, the most recent snapshot on the Wayback Machine (archive.org)
Apr 10, 2024 23:29:48 GMT -5
rickolsen: Stormy caught a mouse in the dining room. He was batting it around and it got away and ran into the kitchen and disappeared. He's killed 3 mice in the last month. This makes 4, but it got away. I didn't know there are so many mice.
Apr 12, 2024 23:45:29 GMT -5
rickolsen: The mouse is dead. I found it on the kitchen floor. He never eats them. I found the last one on my desk.
Apr 13, 2024 0:15:01 GMT -5
ghost: Jackie's new EP "Solla" will be released on May 3rd. Pre-Order here: www.amazon.com/dp/B0D1548R6P
Apr 15, 2024 17:22:48 GMT -5