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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 0:09:21 GMT -5
Every opera singer who has sung Ombra mai fu (and there are many) sings from minimal vibrato to full vibrato. Here is the great Andreas Scholl (a counter tenor I know personally).
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Post by lawrence on May 24, 2023 10:14:04 GMT -5
Every opera singer who has sung Ombra mai fu (and there are many) sings from minimal vibrato to full vibrato. Here is the great Andreas Scholl (a counter tenor I know personally). Of course they do, because that's how the opening phrase is intended to be sung. That is not the point, is it? Post a video of an opera singer performing a song through with minimal vibrato as Renee did for "Lord of the Rings" shown in my previous post, if you can find one. "Taking a rather different approach, in 2002 Fleming provided the vocals for Howard Shore's soundtrack for The Lord of the Rings": -Wikipedia Another example of minimal vibrato: "Mount Doom" Begin at 2:53
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 13:14:59 GMT -5
Every opera singer who has sung Ombra mai fu (and there are many) sings from minimal vibrato to full vibrato. Here is the great Andreas Scholl (a counter tenor I know personally). Of course they do, because that's how the opening phrase is intended to be sung. That is not the point, is it? Post a video of an opera singer performing a song through with minimal vibrato as Renee did for "Lord of the Rings" shown in my previous post, if you can find one. "Taking a rather different approach, in 2002 Fleming provided the vocals for Howard Shore's soundtrack for The Lord of the Rings": -Wikipedia Another example of minimal vibrato: "Mount Doom" Begin at 2:53 You should listen to the ombra mai fu a little more closely, it has many parts where it is sung with minimal vibrato. With less than Renee in her Lord of the Rings songs. Renee's vibrato can always be heard, always, there is not a moment without vibrato, it is weak but always there. It is not a special achievement to sing something permanently with weak vibrato. It's rather boring, especially since you don't understand a word.
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Post by lawrence on May 24, 2023 14:23:20 GMT -5
Renee's vibrato can always be heard, always, there is not a moment without vibrato, it is weak but always there. LOL. That's why it's called "minimal vibrato". So, please post an example of an opera singer performing minimal vibrato throughout the song not going into full vibrato at all. This is not a point of argument, rather the intention is to demonstrate how rare it is for an opera singer to avoid traditional vibrato altogether or minimal-to-full vibrato somewhere in the song. Hope you find one. ________________________________________________ Meanwhile, In an earlier discussion, it was pointed out that Jackie had been using a straight tone (minimal vibrato)-to-vibrato technique at an early age, just doing what came instinctively to her in interpreting the song. As a note relative to that, Jackie made the statement in interview with Heather Ard, "I love that my form of music is almost solely instinctual". She interprets music intuitively according to how she feels about the lyrics. However, she has never sung an entire song with minimal vibrato, though "A Million Dreams" comes close. Sometimes straight tone (minimal vibrato) is either the artist's choice of expression itself, or his/her natural way of singing. For example, here are a few artists performing early Jackie songs with minimal vibrato through the entire song: Libera Boys Choir -"Walking in the Air" Katie Melua -"Bridge Over Troubled Water" Don McLean (original artist) -"Vincent (Starry Starry Night)"
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 23:54:53 GMT -5
Renee's vibrato can always be heard, always, there is not a moment without vibrato, it is weak but always there. LOL. That's why it's called "minimal vibrato". So, please post an example of an opera singer performing minimal vibrato throughout the song not going into full vibrato at all. This is not a point of argument, rather the intention is to demonstrate how rare it is for an opera singer to avoid traditional vibrato altogether or minimal-to-full vibrato somewhere in the song. Hope you find one. ________________________________________________ Meanwhile, In an earlier discussion, it was pointed out that Jackie had been using a straight tone (minimal vibrato)-to-vibrato technique at an early age, just doing what came instinctively to her in interpreting the song. As a note relative to that, Jackie made the statement in interview with Heather Ard, "I love that my form of music is almost solely instinctual". She interprets music intuitively according to how she feels about the lyrics. However, she has never sung an entire song with minimal vibrato, though "A Million Dreams" comes close. Sometimes straight tone (minimal vibrato) is either the artist's choice of expression itself, or his/her natural way of singing. For example, here are a few artists performing early Jackie songs with minimal vibrato through the entire song: Libera Boys Choir -"Walking in the Air" Katie Melua -"Bridge Over Troubled Water" Don McLean (original artist) -"Vincent (Starry Starry Night)" Vibrato is audible everywhere in your videos, very clear, and not minimal. The frequency fluctuations can be heard quite clearly. What is less audible are the volume fluctuations, the tremolo. You don't seem to have a clue. Renee Fleming sang it the way the composer wanted. Anyone else would have done the same. What's so special about it? Answer: the composer, not the singer. Your examples are all easy voices, quiet versions, so it makes sense and of course to use little vibrato. That's what all musicians do because it's a basic principle of music. None of this has anything to do with Jackie's vibrato. Jackie uses her vibrato the way she wants. All this has already been said.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 0:01:33 GMT -5
The Lord of the Rings live, unknown opera singer, minimal vibrato. You don't need Renee, anyone can do it.
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Post by lawrence on May 25, 2023 10:57:30 GMT -5
Vibrato is audible everywhere in your videos, very clear, and not minimal. The frequency fluctuations can be heard quite clearly. What is less audible are the volume fluctuations, the tremolo. You don't seem to have a clue. Renee Fleming sang it the way the composer wanted. Anyone else would have done the same. What's so special about it? Answer: the composer, not the singer. Your examples are all easy voices, quiet versions, so it makes sense and of course to use little vibrato. That's what all musicians do because it's a basic principle of music. None of this has anything to do with Jackie's vibrato. Jackie uses her vibrato the way she wants. All this has already been said. Renee Fleming singing Howard Shore's "Twilight and Shadow", sung in Elvish (The Lord of the Rings) with minimal vibrato, requested of her by Shore. Extremely rare for an opera singer....perhaps never before or since? Did you not understand my meaning that it is "extremely rare for an opera singer" to perform an entire song with minimal vibrato? Has is ever been done by an opera singer except when performing one or more of the songs from Lord of the Rings, as Renee Fleming demonstrated and as requested by the composer? You have not presented an example. "Scientific studies demonstrate that there is no such thing as a truly “straight" tone because there is always a slight variation in pitch and/or amplitude. “Straight tone” is the listener’s perception, but it is not physiologically attainable. Instead, we refer to 'straight' tone as MINIMAL vibrato."
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 12:17:01 GMT -5
Vibrato is audible everywhere in your videos, very clear, and not minimal. The frequency fluctuations can be heard quite clearly. What is less audible are the volume fluctuations, the tremolo. You don't seem to have a clue. Renee Fleming sang it the way the composer wanted. Anyone else would have done the same. What's so special about it? Answer: the composer, not the singer. Your examples are all easy voices, quiet versions, so it makes sense and of course to use little vibrato. That's what all musicians do because it's a basic principle of music. None of this has anything to do with Jackie's vibrato. Jackie uses her vibrato the way she wants. All this has already been said. Renee Fleming singing Howard Shore's "Twilight and Shadow", sung in Elvish (The Lord of the Rings) with minimal vibrato, requested of her by Shore. Extremely rare for an opera singer....perhaps never before or since? Did you not understand my meaning that it is "extremely rare for an opera singer" to perform an entire song with minimal vibrato? Has is ever been done by an opera singer except when performing one or more of the songs from Lord of the Rings, as Renee Fleming demonstrated and as requested by the composer? You have not presented an example. "Scientific studies demonstrate that there is no such thing as a truly “straight" tone because there is always a slight variation in pitch and/or amplitude. “Straight tone” is the listener’s perception, but it is not physiologically attainable. Instead, we refer to 'straight' tone as MINIMAL vibrato." opera singer minimal vibrato opera singer minimal vibrato How many songs do you know that are must sung only with minimal vibrato? where is the line between minimal and moderate vibrato? You can't even define that. It's absolute nonsense what you're writing here. Define your statements first, then find possible songs that are necessarily sung with minimal vibrato. Your examples are not what I think of as going through with minimal vibrato singing. Except for the boys' choir, there is also moderate vibrato everywhere. Here is a song with minimal vibrato from an opera by Henry Purcell. A song that is consistently sung with minimal vibrato and contains longer notes is extremely rare, this statement is correct.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 13:32:42 GMT -5
None of this has anything to do with jackie's vibrato, what's the point.
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Post by lawrence on May 25, 2023 15:11:56 GMT -5
How many songs do you know that are must sung only with minimal vibrato? where is the line between minimal and moderate vibrato? You can't even define that. SMH.... As I've explained, minimal vibrato is commonly referred to as "straight tone", singing without vibrato. There is an obvious and distinct difference between the moderate to wide vibrato traditionally performed by opera singers and straight tone/minimal vibrato (same thing) demonstrated in the videos by Libera, Katie Melua and Don Mclean. Their performances are predominantly straight tone if not completely, perhaps a very light/minimal vibrato at times, which distinguishes them from what is characteristic of opera singers. Songs performed by most choirs are required to be sung in "straight tone", as I pointed out earlier in a discussion of the 18th century style of choral singing. The Lord of the Rings series must be performed with minimal vibrato, what Howard Shore, the composer, referred to as "straight tone" in his request to Renee Fleming. Otherwise, it's not a matter of "what songs must be sung only with minimal vibrato". Rather it's the artists choice, such as Katie Melua's rendition of "Bridge Over Troubled Water". Chloe Agnew of Celtic Woman also records some songs in straight tone, such as her rendition of "Walking in the Air" and "To Where You Are". For some artists, it's a matter of their not having learned to use vibrato. Others have made it their signature sound, like folk trios such as The Lettermen who's song, "When I Fall in Love", I posted earlier in the discussion. A song that is consistently sung with minimal vibrato and contains longer notes is extremely rare, this statement is correct. Yes, with regard to opera singers. Thank you for the confirmation and your attempt to find one. None of this has anything to do with jackie's vibrato, what's the point. I had been discussing the topic of straight tone with regard to Jackie's use of it after age 15 and straight tone in general. I simply posted Renee Fleming's recording of "Twilight and Shadow" as a matter of interest in pointing out the rarity of an opera singer performing a song with straight tone/minimal vibrato, nothing more. You made an issue of it. That was followed by another post with this statement, "Jackie has never sung an entire song with minimal vibrato, though "A Million Dreams" comes close. Sometimes straight tone (minimal vibrato) is either the artist's choice of expression itself, or his/her natural way of singing. For example, here are a few artists performing early Jackie songs with minimal vibrato through the entire song:....Libera, Katie Melua and Don McLean. Since you conclude there is no point to this discussion, there's no purpose in pursuing it further....unless I may have something to add later.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 23:49:19 GMT -5
How many songs do you know that are must sung only with minimal vibrato? where is the line between minimal and moderate vibrato? You can't even define that. SMH.... As I've explained, minimal vibrato is commonly referred to as "straight tone", singing without vibrato. There is an obvious and distinct difference between the moderate to wide vibrato traditionally performed by opera singers and straight tone/minimal vibrato (same thing) demonstrated in the videos by Libera, Katie Melua and Don Mclean. Their performances are predominantly straight tone if not completely, perhaps a very light/minimal vibrato at times, which distinguishes them from what is characteristic of opera singers. Songs performed by most choirs are required to be sung in "straight tone", as I pointed out earlier in a discussion of the 18th century style of choral singing. The Lord of the Rings series must be performed with minimal vibrato, what Howard Shore, the composer, referred to as "straight tone" in his request to Renee Fleming. Otherwise, it's not a matter of "what songs must be sung only with minimal vibrato". Rather it's the artists choice, such as Katie Melua's rendition of "Bridge Over Troubled Water". Chloe Agnew of Celtic Woman also records some songs in straight tone, such as her rendition of "Walking in the Air" and "To Where You Are". For some artists, it's a matter of their not having learned to use vibrato. Others have made it their signature sound, like folk trios such as The Lettermen who's song, "When I Fall in Love", I posted earlier in the discussion. A song that is consistently sung with minimal vibrato and contains longer notes is extremely rare, this statement is correct. Yes, with regard to opera singers. Thank you for the confirmation and your attempt to find one. None of this has anything to do with jackie's vibrato, what's the point. I had been discussing the topic of straight tone with regard to Jackie's use of it after age 15 and straight tone in general. I simply posted Renee Fleming's recording of "Twilight and Shadow" as a matter of interest in pointing out the rarity of an opera singer performing a song with straight tone/minimal vibrato, nothing more. You made an issue of it. That was followed by another post with this statement, "Jackie has never sung an entire song with minimal vibrato, though "A Million Dreams" comes close. Sometimes straight tone (minimal vibrato) is either the artist's choice of expression itself, or his/her natural way of singing. For example, here are a few artists performing early Jackie songs with minimal vibrato through the entire song:....Libera, Katie Melua and Don McLean. Since you conclude there is no point to this discussion, there's no purpose in pursuing it further....unless I may have something to add later. What does an opera singer have to do with Jackie Evancho? Jackie is not an opera singer. This has been emphasized by you again and again. It has no relation to Jackie and should not have been posted here. It wasn't me who made it a topic, it was you alone. Singers who sing in a choir in an opera are opera singers. They sing with minimal vibrato, that's what you say. So there are a lot of opera singers who sing whole songs with minimal vibrato. If you had written "world-famous opera singer", then it would have made sense.
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Post by lawrence on May 26, 2023 17:29:56 GMT -5
Discussion of straight tone/minimal vibrato is relative to Jackie who began using straight tone increasingly more at age 15 when she took serious interest in exploring the contemporary pop genre, adopting certain pop vocal techniques, particularly the practice of using straight tone, even more emphatically when recording classical songs like "Attesa" and "How Great Thou Art". It is "a technique most often used in pop, rock, jazz, blues, country, R&B, and other popular genres. It's also common in musicals, choral performances, and traditional forms of folk music where pronounced vibrato might sound out of place." Rarely, if ever, has an opera soloist sung an entire song with straight tone, especially with long sustained notes. Composer of the Lord of the Rings series, Howard Shore, provided an exception when he requested Renee Fleming to record the sound track for the film using straight tone to create the effect he wanted.
Below, Jackie sings O Mio Babbino Caro/Nessun Dorma with dramatic use of the straight tone-to-vibrato technique, contrary to operatic tradition (compared with Kathleen Battle's performance of OMBC, for example, posted on page 2).
Renee Fleming sings "Twilight and Shadow" in Elvish with straight tone, contrary to the traditional moderate to wide operatic vibrato characteristic of opera soloists.
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